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What is Ford thinking?
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noascyet



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Millersville, MD

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now ~$30k is more like it... and yes the 2 year old car that someone bought and never drove is spot on! The Jag's list out at over $100k but you can pick up a very nice low mileage one for about half that...
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1985 Motorsport Capri



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Dearborn, MI / Richmond, VA USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i checked out a 09 shelby a few months ago at a ford dealer that had 2 sitting on the lot in the same spot for over 8 months in richmond, va.
the cars didnt even move at all.
sticker had them listed at 43k. salesman came running out when he seen me looking. asked what he would let it go for.
he then opened the door & grabbed a seperate sticker that had fallen off the window. sticker stated there was a 16 grand dealer mark up.
i told the guy he was crazy, the cars hadnt moved in 9 months.
he stated that was steal! they were a hot item(so he said). i asked if they were so hot, then why had they been sitting on the lot for so long?
he answered: they hadnt found the right person to sell it too.
told him we was nuts & he would never sell them (they are still sittingin the same spot & the 2010's are now out there as well).
called my dealership in Dearborn. my sales guy said he could get me one for 36 k out the door. if i waited until september, i could get one for even less.
probably wont get it. & most certainly wont get a 2010(that is one ugly car! even ford realized they screwed up on the ass end design. a salesman said ford realized this & ovoided showing the taillight panel/rear end on all marketing photos/commercials at first.)
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ChuckG



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 507
Location: Ann Arbor,MI

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen the "Market Price Adjustment" stickers too. I love when they go wrong and the dealer's greed bites them in the butt!

I walk away and never return to dealers who practice such tactics, as should we all. Plenty of good dealers. Why support the bad?

I was told the '09s can qualify for "A-Z Plan", but not the squished, ugly '10s.

Too bad so many improvements are under such ugly sheet metal.
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ckj



Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow i CAN'T imagine paying 40k for a mustang gt! It's shocking to me.

I bought a 05 Audi S4 in 2006 for 40k, and that thing is pure luxury + still outperforms today's mustangs. No way on god's green earth I would spend that kind of dough on a mustang / challenger / camaro.

Aren't corvette's in the ~$45k ballpark??
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Tom S.



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 264
Location: Farmington, MN

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds of my local dealer back in the recent T-Bird sales fiasco. When the latest T-Bird came out they were marking them up $10k and they were sitting there forever. By the time Ford killed the program this dealer had them marked down $10k under MSRP and they were still sitting there for awhile. These stupid dealers can't seem to figure out the difference between screwing a customer for a one-time sale or creating a customer for the long term. I refuse to pay any dealer mark-up and won't shop any dealer that tries to extort one out of me.
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'85 ASC Coupe #607910--sold and crushed RIP Crying or Very sad
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to ask the gang here two questions. However it requires that you use the other side of your brain. If you cannot, don't answer.

#1. How much money is fair for a dealer to make on the sale of a single car or truck? This is a twenty to seventy thousand dollar purchase, so how much is fair to both buyer and seller?

#2. How much money is fair for the salesperson to earn as a commission on said transaction?

I am being serious, and want serious thought out replies. Any smart-@$$ replies will be deleted.

Remember, there is no Red Cross over the dealership's name, on the front of the building, and it not a "Not-for-Profit" organization. We are all there to make a living, just as you all try to do.

PS/ I am retired from 27+ years of selling cars, and it's one tough, over competitive miserable business. But, it's getting better these days with so many dealers going out of business - but.......I'll stop there.

Going out. When I return I will tell you HOW it SHOULD be, because I have been on BOTH sides having bought many many NEW cars in the last 42 years, and sold them for 27 years, seeing the beast from BOTH sides.
Later.... Gotta Run
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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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75coug



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Van Alstyne, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not have a problem with dealers marking up the price of a car. If someone is willing to pay $10k, $20k or even $100k over sticker, so be it. It is simple capitalism.

By the same token, I am always looking to pay as little as I can for a vehicle. Again, capitalism. The price that I paid for a new Dodge Ram this past January was 40% off the sticker price. I was taking advantage of a down market. Should dealers be able to take advantage of an up market with a hot vehicle? Sure.
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Robert

1989 ascMcLaren convertible - royal gold
1986 ascMcLaren convertible - red
1984 ascMcLaren convertible - white
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shelbyscarab



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1985 Motorsport Capri wrote:
i checked out a 09 shelby a few months ago at a ford dealer that had 2 sitting on the lot in the same spot for over 8 months in richmond, va.
the cars didnt even move at all.
sticker had them listed at 43k. salesman came running out when he seen me looking. asked what he would let it go for.
he then opened the door & grabbed a seperate sticker that had fallen off the window. sticker stated there was a 16 grand dealer mark up.
i told the guy he was crazy, the cars hadnt moved in 9 months.
he stated that was steal! they were a hot item(so he said). i asked if they were so hot, then why had they been sitting on the lot for so long?
he answered: they hadnt found the right person to sell it too.
told him we was nuts & he would never sell them (they are still sittingin the same spot & the 2010's are now out there as well).
called my dealership in Dearborn. my sales guy said he could get me one for 36 k out the door. if i waited until september, i could get one for even less.
probably wont get it. & most certainly wont get a 2010(that is one ugly car! even ford realized they screwed up on the ass end design. a salesman said ford realized this & ovoided showing the taillight panel/rear end on all marketing photos/commercials at first.)


I agree and would've taken the same tact with the sales guy. those mark ups on specialty cars are crazy. I think most people would just laugh at them, but its a big world - meaning there is a sucker born every minute........ they used to come along more often in the past, but I think the "sucker well" has been going dry. I don't need to be the "first on my block" to own one. I'll wait and save the $$$.

and ditto about the taillight panel design on the 2010....... a little weak, IMO. I think they could've done a better job with that.
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shelbyscarab



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKJ wrote:
Wow i CAN'T imagine paying 40k for a mustang gt! It's shocking to me.

I bought a 05 Audi S4 in 2006 for 40k, and that thing is pure luxury + still outperforms today's mustangs. No way on god's green earth I would spend that kind of dough on a mustang / challenger / camaro.

Aren't corvette's in the ~$45k ballpark??


Yea, the pricing is getting a little out of hand, even for the specialty cars. And you make a great point, once you start heading north of $35-$40K, you HAVE to look at the neighborhood of cars in that price range and realistically consider what your money is buying. Is a Shelby GT500 & KR worth the $50-75K? eh About this price range - I've always thought Ford has had a void, a missing entry in the "supercar" tier, cheby has the corvette, Dodge has had the viper (amazingly never cancelled since '94), and Ford had the GT(40) for a few years only.(but overpriced). Ford should have an entry in this market, they've got a rich history of great nameplates they could bring back and fill this.

Looking back to the 60s, the "build it the way you want it", "poor man's speedster" views, what was the cost to build that car back then? seriously, what was the price of all the materials and labor? Then consider the salary of your current job compared with then, (considering inflation). I'd like to see the historical statistics on average car prices for the last 100 years, I'd bet that during our lifetime, WE'VE seen the steepest increase in car prices. I think the car industry has just found out what the breaking point is in the public's eye on new car prices......
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75coug



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Van Alstyne, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that a large part of skyrocketing prices has been the infusion of additional safety equipment.
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Robert

1989 ascMcLaren convertible - royal gold
1986 ascMcLaren convertible - red
1984 ascMcLaren convertible - white
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catching up.......

Yes, it might surprise you....BUT I am against "Mark-Ups" !! All it does, is anger the prospective buyer. It's wrong, period.

Low balling is wrong, also. But it's a necessary evil.
I've worked in "Systems Houses" and low balling works, PERIOD, but it makes a sale (often) but that customer will never return, BUT if you do not "Ball 'em) you are NOT going to sell him !!!!!

Lastly, you will A-L-W-A-Y-S do better at a small sized dealer (IF THERE ARE ANY LEFT !) Simple reason = Low Overhead, smaller place, + Lower properrty tax, etc, etc.

http://www.kbb.com will always give you dealer's cost (they are 99% of the time spot on) BUT, they leave out charges from the factory, to the dealer, and therefore people feel they are getting taken. They leave off about $400 worh of fees assessed against each & every car!!!
Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

So, if you price out a car, on there , you should add like $850.00 to their price and then subtract rebates, factory incentives, etc.....

Shop local, try to visit smaller dealers, usually better prices, even though the big highway razz-ma-tazz stores will shout about "Buying power" and "overstocked" and and and .....it ain't true.

Don't tip the service writer, or he'll expect it every time. Give a twenty to your salesperson, they can get done for you what you can't make happen, like magic ! Wink
Never become abusive or fresh. We can tell and smell a lie a mile away. We talk to like 6-8 customers a day. We can read minds. It's our job!
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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1985 Motorsport Capri



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Dearborn, MI / Richmond, VA USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the cars should sell for the sticker price.
not a penny more. never should there be an extra cost over the sticker price!

as far the mustang, prices are way too high with any model.
the original concept of the mustang was a affordable sports car for the young person that could be personalized to there tastes.

not anymore.

now the shelby & gt's are geared towards the baby boomer who has alot of disposable income & want that classic car they couldnt afford when they were a teenager.

sad.
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1985 Mercury Motorsport Capri Registry
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This true, but MOST of the young(er) guys I got in were very married and had 1 child with a pregnant wife and were looking at minivans and/or SUVs.
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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ChuckG



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 507
Location: Ann Arbor,MI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I buy Z-Plan (Pops is a Fomoco retiree), so negotiating isn't part of the deal for me, but it also means I walk away from any car Ford doesn't offer the discount on.

I've gone in to buy a Shelby; drove out in a Jaguar (no, not the same dealer...). Expect I'll be passing on the new SHO for a year or two too.

Likewise, I walk out of any dealer I see with over-sticker markups. Plenty don't and I'll find those guys and give them my business.

Another annoying habit "how much can you afford a month?" from sales staff. It's ghetto. Say $500, and it's a $15,000 car at 25% for five years. How much is the car, delivered and what are the available interest rates/terms are more relevant topics and show respect to the buyer.

Greed is a sin and it almost always gets those who are motivated by it, hence the early T-bird story told here.
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