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A heck of a picture
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:05 am    Post subject: A heck of a picture Reply with quote

This is probably THE most interesting photo I've seen. In several of my telephone conversations with Peter Muscat, he mentioned to me that Ford (in 1984-1986) had the ability to make him the "canvas" to make a better ascMcLaren 2-Seat Roadster (Mercury Capri 5.0SC) version, but after repeated attempts, in the end, FoMoCo would not, saying they just couldn't. Muscat repeated that once the hatch was removed from the Capri Hatchback, that the actual "corners" or rear fender peaks were incorporated into the hatch. Therefore, when the hatch was removed, to convert the car to the convertible, there was no "back" on the car, just taillamps, license plate housing and bumper fascia. Therefore he asked Ford if they could make a 2-door notchback sedan (like the Mustang) by doing so, the entire rear quarters, fenders and fender tops could be used, as well as the trunk lid. Would make a complicated job, a piece of cake. In addition, an added bonus would be an easier job of roof removal, due to the thinner "C" pillar on the Mustang, over the Capri. Ford had the body shells and all to do it, but told Muscat "NO" cannot be done and blah blah blah. Well......I wonder if Muscat ever saw these photos! Okay, it's a pre-1984, more like a 1981 perhaps, but that's just trim. Look at this Capri 2-Door Sedan Without hatch, with trunk lid, with Mustang 2-Door Sedan roof. It's one of many made in Mexico.


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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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75coug



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Van Alstyne, TX

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the upright grill compared to the Mustang, the Capri coupe had quite the formal look to it. From the angle at which that photo was taken, it kind of takes on the appearance of a Fairmont/Zephyr.
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Robert

1989 ascMcLaren convertible - royal gold
1986 ascMcLaren convertible - red
1984 ascMcLaren convertible - white
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funniest part of it all was that Ford ACTUALLY had a body code FOR a Capri 2-Dr. Sedan !!

Today, many 84 85 86 SC Roadster owners are complaining of "bubbles" around the sides at the rear (that's where the new ascMcLaren designed fender caps were leaded onto the rear fender peaks, and are now beginning to errode. Such would not be the case had the "Canvas" car looked like that picture.

BTW, the front fenders in that picture are from a Mustang, and lack the blister bulge of the Capri, but they were a direct bolt-on and Ford could have used the Capri front fenders in place of the Mustang ones that this car wears. Note that the Capri front fender caps fit perfectly on the Mustang fender. Under such a situation, the rear fender would have lacked the blister buldge, but the fronts would have had it.
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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's interesting is that Ford appeared to do it two "ways" in Mexico. The hatchback version is a Capri through and through but got the Mustang nose:





The "coupe" or "notchback" is the Mustang body but with the Capri nose and tailights as Sandy showed.

-Mike
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure Muscat wouldn't have allowed just putting the bulges on the front.

HOWEVER, if Ford would have agreed, I think it would have been easier (like Sandy says) to have Ford build Mustang Notchbacks (coupes) with Capri parts and then asc put rear quarter bulges in themselves.

Reworking the rear hatch area must have been more work.

-Mike
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Mike, Check out that White example above, again. She wears Mustang rear quarters (no bulge) and Mustang front fenders (no bulge) and look at the headlamps ... the ARE Capri, not Mustang!

The car Muscat wanted was a 2-Door Notchback Mustang, with Capri hood, grille, headlamps & front bumper fascia, with Capri front fenders and Capri fender end caps, with the Mustang rear quarters/roof with the rear fender caps of the Capri, so that Capri taillamps could be installed.
With that product, only the roof would have to be sheared off, the rest of the body was good to go, as was. Yes, he aimed to do it without the rear fender bulge. The car would have cost a couple thousand less also. Wearing the Mustang roof (2-door coupe) was a much easier removal process that dealing with the thick & wide "C" pillar on the supplied Capri. The front fenders would need to be changed, not so much to retain the bulge, but to accommodate the Capri hood.
ascMcLaren even went so far as offering to set up a building ON the Dearborn site, to finish the incomplete build themselves, if Ford would allow them to do so. Ford would not ! The 2-Door Sedan Mustangs would leave the line, minus taillamps, rear fender caps, front fenders & caps, grille & headlamps & front bumper fascia. The Capri parts would them be added at the ascMcLaren on premises facility and could be check by Ford Quality Control inspectors if need be. Ford said NO !.
Yet, here in Mexico they WERE building the exact product Muscat wanted, but could not get.
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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy wrote:
Actually, Mike, Check out that White example above, again. She wears Mustang rear quarters (no bulge) and Mustang front fenders (no bulge) and look at the headlamps ... the ARE Capri, not Mustang!


What am I missing? The WHITE car has the Capri bulges front and back.

A better picture showing the rear quarter bulge. Note the "Mustang" script on the back.


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Last edited by negusm on Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy wrote:
The front fenders would need to be changed, not so much to retain the bulge, but to accommodate the Capri hood.


You do not need the Capri front fenders to accomodate the Capri hood. Just the front bumper cover and support.

Having the bulges in the front fendors and NOT in the rear quarters looks HORRIBLE.

There are numerous examples of kids swapping Capri front fenders on a Mustang (because of the "cool" bulge) and it looks rediculous and half baked. It is a direct swap and I have heard that no modification is necessary to use the Mustang cover and hood.

-Mike
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A project a few people have tried is to put rear quarter bulges onto a Mustang Coupe and make a Capri Coupe with bulges all around, front nose, rear, early Capri tail lights, etc.

One guy was trying to make a 4 seater Capri vert.

Those projects never seems to get past the fabrication stage.

It would be interesting to see one done right just as an example.

-Mike
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I could not see that in the smaller photo (the bulges) ~ However, remember, that Mustang is using a Capri Rr. quarter. I know of no Rr. quarter with the bulges and a 2-door sedan "C" pillar. Remember, the "C" pillar is attached to this part. Look in a parts book. The "C" pillar wanted is that of a Must. 2-Dr sedan, and they have no bulges. Then you are back to square 1 with a hatchback. Perhaps Muscat was planning on doing away with BOTH bulges, using (as the pictured Coupe has) Mustang fenders front & rear.
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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so what's the receipe?

1986 Mustang LX V-8 2-Dr Sedan
Capri Front Fenders and Fender Caps
Capri Hood & Grille & Front Bumper Fascia
Capri Headlights & frames.
Capri Taillamps and License depression

We still have a problem with the rear blisters or bulges....
What to do? As witnessed, no problem on the Hatchback, but the whole point was to circumvent the hatchback, yes?? !!
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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy wrote:
I know of no Rr. quarter with the bulges and a 2-door sedan "C" pillar.


I totally agree.

Quote:
Perhaps Muscat was planning on doing away with BOTH bulges, using (as the pictured Coupe has) Mustang fenders front & rear.


I think as soon as he put the Capri front fenders on the coupe body....he would have barfed all over it. One of two things would have been done...either fabricate some rear bulges or lose them in the front.....

To me the bulges make the car. Everyone who has a 79-93 Mustang has bulge envy, whether they admit it or not. Very Happy

-Mike
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy wrote:
Okay, so what's the receipe?

1986 Mustang LX V-8 2-Dr Sedan
Capri Front Fenders and Fender Caps
Capri Hood & Grille & Front Bumper Fascia
Capri Headlights & frames.
Capri Taillamps and License depression

We still have a problem with the rear blisters or bulges....
What to do? As witnessed, no problem on the Hatchback, but the whole point was to circumvent the hatchback, yes?? !!


Exactly. Unless Ford had actually CONSIDERED a Capri coupe. Meaning they may have had made a mold for rear coupe quarters with the bulge in it. Maybe thats what they were dangling in front of Muscat? Or maybe they knew they could make that mold if they wanted to.

Was Muscat in love with the Capris bulges or just the nose and rear? To me it was a whole package. Maybe he could give or take the bulge?

-Mike
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Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We never spoke of the bulges. I'd guess that they were not as important to him, as they are to you. My guess? He'd tell Ford to use what's in the top photo herein, Mustang fenders and end caps. His "thing" was to reduce customazation and work time per car, by beginning with a 2-Door sedan. Since there was no Capri 2-Dr sedan, he'd take a Mustang 2-Dr sedan and use as many Capri styling cues as possible to retain the Capri family look. The rear bulge was never discussed between the two of us, just cost-per-unit and the involved job of removing the "C" pillar & roof.
BTW, that added piece along the upper sides from the back taillamp forward to the door opening was very big and wider than you'd imagine. Hank has several, and yes it's a dedicated right & left. asc leaded it on, there was no fiberglas bondo whatever.....
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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
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1985 Motorsport Capri



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Dearborn, MI / Richmond, VA USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually making a capri coupe is possible. i helped make an 1985 capri rs covertable. my buddy had an 1985 gt convert. about 4 years ago the car was ready for the scrap yard as the body was rotted pretty bad from michigan winters. i talked him out of junking it due to the rarity of 85 gt converts with the 4 bbl / 5 speed combo. the frame was solid but the floor boards, doors, quarters were all rotted bad. engine / trans ended up being yanked & rebuilt. at that time all body panels were removed. i still had quite a few 85 capri rs parts left from the car i had that was totaled out & another friend had a 84 turbo rs that was totaled in the rear, plus an 86 doner car from the scrap yard. so a group of us tried to make a 85 rs convert, & it worked. had the front air dam, all rs trim & all. it looked as if it was a factory produced model. the only trouble we had was the quarter panel. what we ended up doing was getting a NOS capri quarter panel skin & then frabricating it with the top portion of the original coverts quarter. alittle bit of welding & some bondo & Ta-Da- capri convertable quarter panel. that was pretty trickey but it worked. when the car was finished it looked good. car was sold about 2 years ago to a guy in Warren, MI & as far as i know its still out there. it was white (gts original color) with the flat grey trim below the beltline.
so to sum it up, if it can be done with a convert, it can be done with a coupe.
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1985 Mercury Motorsport Capri Registry
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