ascMcLaren Enthusiasts Forum Index ascMcLaren Enthusiasts
An asc McLaren forum for ALL Mustang and Capri based cars modified by Automotive Speciality Corporation, a Division of American Sunroof Corporation.
(a trademarked corporation) with no affilation to this site.
 
 AlbumAlbum   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ford to kill Mercury
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ascMcLaren Enthusiasts Forum Index -> It's your call.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The REAL contest will be the cost of operating and the champ in fuel economy in next month's Motor Trend when the Dodge Charger SRT-8 Super Bee meets the Smart Car at the Mobil Economy Runs !!
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Album
ChuckG



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 507
Location: Ann Arbor,MI

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we counting the numerous re-badged foreign cars accurately here? Who many small GM cars are rebadged Opels, Subarus, Suzukis sold to unwitting Americans as if they're domestic?

Toyotas built in Kentucky are called "foreign" because Toyota isn't headquartered here--yet Mustangs built in Flat Rock by Mazda of Hiroshima are "domestic".

Gotta love the Big Three's wildly inconsistent rationalizations!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll clear it up.

Cars whose sales profit GM, FoMoCo or Chrysler are Domestic
Cars whose sales in no way profit GM, FoMoCo nor Chrysler are imports.
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Album
Kentennis



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 865
Location: Hudson, Fl

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen: I was an employee of TRW in 1965 when the auto negotiations began. I was also a student at Wayne State University's School of Management and Applied Technology. One of my instructors, on Saturday's all day sessions, was the HEAD of the Ford negotiating team. I remember those days well. We were told everything that was proposed by both sides. He was a great instructor.

1. Back then the UAW wanted a bigger role in the quality of the vehicles we were producing. their competetive concerns, then, were for the European Brands. The COMPANY thought that was ridiculous. They were enjoying high profits and didn't want the union involved in the 'management' of the company at all, much less demanding higher quality. From all this was a compromise. No say in quality but the advent of a layoff guarantee in the form of, '95% of your pay minus 7.50 that you wouldn't have to spend on gas while laid off.' Basically a guaranteed wage. And then the companies gave 30 and out, regardless of age. The companies screwed up then. And later they screwed up when an American came up with a quality control plan that the industry rejected. He went to Japan and they accepted his program with open arms. In the 60's and 70's the quality in the USA sucked. Much as the quality of Chinese goods does today. But the Japs, using an American's quality control method became a quality product.

You see where that's brought us. Finally, a few years back, Buick introduced and employee involved QC program. Workers were able to shut down the line for defective parts. And it happened. Instead of recalls and consumer complaints, QUALITY improved.

One day, one of my test stand operators (We made power steering pumps for Ford) passed a bad pump. It was caught in a random inspection final check. I went to him. His statement was, "It's only 1 out of 4500 pumps we'll ship today.", My answer was, "To you it's one out of 4500, to the vehicle buyer it's one out of one."

Quality should have been job 1 all along. But the Japs, and now Koreans, have forced the American Auto industry to accept that many, in fact the great majority, of the employees in the plants WANT to produce a quality product. But the cars produced are made by people at the will and whim of MANAGEMENT. The employee has no say in quality but the UAW members are constantly accused of producing a poor quality product, when in fact, they have no say in the matter yet.

But being an American and a Veteran I will not now, nor in the future, buy a car where the PROFITS return to a foreign country.

And all the jerks that defend their purchase of a foreign badged car with the statements about parts coming from everywhere, to justify their UNAMERICAN purchase, can kiss the part of my anatomy that the sun doen't shine on!

Until we started wholesale tax cuts and deficit spending, in 1980, we were the greatest nation on earth. Now we're not. And every dime you spend on a Chinese, Japanese, Korean or any other country's product, just takes us closer to the brink of fiscal disaster.

Almost trips, getting off the soapbox.

The workers are not the problem. The UAW is not, and was not, the problem. The high paid jackasses running the companies ARE the problem!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AMEN
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Album
ChuckG



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 507
Location: Ann Arbor,MI

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Toyota, Subaru and Kia are building plants in the US--Ford isn't, GM isn't, Chrysler isn't.

Profits from the Big Three? They get reinvested--into foreign plants. Thank you US tax code!

Only one of the Big Three didn't rob it's shareholders and bond holders and that's Ford--who hasn't paid a dividend in years. They're making money--and building plants in Mexico as they close US plants--like the excellent Wixom plant (that would have built a lovely Fusion!)

The economics of global manufacturing are FAR more complex than you guys let on. Vizio sells millions of TVs and employs ten thousand Asians in Asia and about a hundred Americans at their headquarters in California. Who's benefiting?? The countries with more jobs and less underemployment! Same for cars--widgets, anything.

As for me, I support companies who put average Americans to work--and that's a far, far broader group than Ford, GM, and Chrysler. Only GM built more cars in the US than Toyota in 2008 and not by much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know if your facts are correct, but I will take your word for it. All well & good. But, the PROFITS (I know - dirty word) go back to the foreign corporation, be it in Germany, Japan, or where ever. The $$$$ leaves the USA. The $$$ trail goes overseas, to foreign corporations, and NOT to American Corporations.


Bitter Pill Story hits home.

We have 1 "child" "Child" is 26. Child is a CPA and soon will also become an attorney ! Always been exceptional in every way.
Nothing but straight ""A" s

Today, he slapped me in my face. No, not literally, figuratively speaking.
He purchased a new 2010 Lexus i 230 A JAPANESS CAR, made in Japan !! It's here now, inthe driveway. It hurts. It's Dark Grey Pearl. I am Blue !

Do i love him less?? Of course not. Likewise...
I respect those whos views differ from mine. That's what makes us all unique and free - in a free country.
We have choices. We are indeed lucky.

I wish all of you a safe and a happy Memorial Day, surrounded with VIPs in your lives.

Stay safe, don't overdue the food or drink and think about how lucky we are.

I was NOT supposed to still be alive at this time, 2 years ago.
I am now (drum roll, please..... 99 percent CLEAN !!!
Ya Whooo.
See, it can be done. Always think positive and never ever give up fighting, praying and Hope.

God Bless ye all Laughing If you all lived in New Jersey..... I'd invite ya all over, tomorrow.
It's the house with a Japanese car in the driveway !!! Shrug
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Album
ProTouringASC



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Lenoir City, TN

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God bless you Sandy.... and God bless all those serving so that I might be free!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
_________________
...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Album
ChuckG



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 507
Location: Ann Arbor,MI

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy--Nobody asked for my passport when I bought Toyota stock. Bet nobody asks when you buy any. It truly is a Global Economy from an investor's standpoint. The ONLY point of contention is where the work is done and whose citizens have employment.

Last I looked, an American dollar is ultimately only good one place. Remember when the Japanese had all that Gringo money and bought land at wildly inflated prices?? Right back into American hands, eh? Then, sold it back when their economy tanked, didn't they? Made some Americans very rich.

Profits go where the Board designates--in the case of the Big Three--Foreign Investment! The others, US Investment. Nobody is declaring dividends and US tax code insures all "profit" is made by foreign "subsidiaries" and all "loss" is taken on the US-side. Hence, the GM plant where I worked in College getting all new tools and landscaping just before it was closed. Go look up what GE and Exxon paid in US taxes last year--ZERO!

Come to Michigan and see how ten working and twenty drawing unemployment is working out! Who cares what the ten make when they have to carry the twenty not working?

Again, 10,000 American jobs at $50,000 beats 1000 American "Headquarters" jobs at $100k all day, every day, and twice on Sunday--unless you're cool with European-style taxes or a permanent unemployed class with WAY too much time on its hands and tons of resentment to express through civil unrest and crime.

PS Your son's car was sold to him by an American salesman, will use American-supplied fuel, oil, probably tires, and mechanical maintenance. He's putting plenty of Americans to work--especially now that American Toyota dealer's American employees are on OT fixing their acceleration problems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

."" that American Toyota dealer's American employees are on OT fixing their acceleration problems.....""

I was just getting into it.....and that's the end ??

Well, have a nice holiday, and I see the various points you made,

It's a very nice car, especially the interior's trim.
The seats are too small. I am not "big" ~ 5 foot 10
211 Lbs. The seats are tiny, compared to my Town Car.
There is no under thigh support and my thighs hang over the two
sides of the small bucket seats.
The interior's imitation marble is impressive.

It's super duper comservative. Dark Dark Charcoal Grey exterior
with black interior, with Ivory stitching.

Place was busy. People are buying Lexys, for sure.
We also went to Infiniti, prior. They too were very busy
Went to my dealer to see Lincoln MKZ. Son liked the back's appearance, and the interior - thought front end "sucked" !
They were empty - just us.
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Album
ChuckG



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 507
Location: Ann Arbor,MI

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at the MKZ as well and had your son's same reaction--plus the inevitable loss of resale all Lincolns traditionally have. They're just not distinct enough and they're more land yachts than touring coupes for my tastes.

Were I leasing, a better front end and touring suspension would've helped. Instead, I went with a Jaguar. Ford engine and electrical and far better interior and more classic styling.

My same friends who called it an import are now made to eat their words when they try to rationalize the Fusion, built in Mexico...

Remember: more than profits go into a nation's economy. Wages do too. In the case of transplants, more money stays in the form of wages, supplies, taxes, etc. than leaves in "profit"--if there is any anymore since all companies try to zero out to avoid taxes.

I've not heard of the Japanese, Korean, Swede, or German execs getting great big bonuses that distribute what you and I would call "profit", but the IRS does not. The US execs?? Nope, they're getting tens of millions in these bonuses--from companies who don't make a profit??. Tax dodge!

I'm as free market as they come, but there's a line--and exporting jobs and obscene pay crosses it. Cure cancer, yeah, you're worth ten million a year. Bounce a ball or approve exterior paint colors? Not so much!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Kentennis



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 865
Location: Hudson, Fl

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you have definetly swallowed the 'Free market' doctrine, hook, line and sinker.

Just remember, when a dollar leaves America, it must come back and , eventually, be SPENT here. Since the foreign countries that have those dollars aren't buying our 'goods' they are buying our country and its' industries. 860 BILLION + a year! They are also buying our 'debt' that we've run this country with since 1980, except for 2 years!! Someday they'll want their money. We don't have it.

Kiss those jobs and industries goodbye. We have become a service oriented, low wage, debtor nation to the world since Reagan first proposed 'Free Trade in 1979.

I'm retired. I have money. I saw it coming in the 80's and acted accordingly. Now we are free of any debt and hate watching the country, that I served in the military for, going to hell in a handbasket!

Happy Memorial Day. Remember why we call it that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Sandy



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken, U & I see it that way, 'cause we are "over 60" ~ However, the younger generation does not see it that way, at all, sadly and seemingly always jumps on the oppisite side. The main reason - I think - is because they love the Japanese/German products, and they support them with their purchases.
My parents - when they were alive, would always & only, buy American.
Next generation, (ME) buy American most of the time, at least 85%, the next generation after me (I am 63), like our son, about 50/50 split, when his kids are like 20 it will be like 80% Foreign, & 20% American.
Just the way it's going....Shame
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.

1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.

http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Album
ChuckG



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 507
Location: Ann Arbor,MI

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Detroit was once the cigar capitol of the US. Now? Not one shop. Then the car capitol--now, no plants. It's a boomtown gone bust, while others have grown.

Ford once had 80,000 employees at Rouge. Now? Maybe 80,000 nationwide. Wixom sits idle. Sheldon Road and Ypsilanti so too.

Now, the Big Three prey upon your patriotism to buy cars they import from slave-wage countries with this silly notion there's this big vault of gold under Toyota's headquarters. Nope, most of their US earnings go into US paychecks.

And no, I don't own any Japanese or German products--but I did own a Toyota built in Kentucky and it was great. I prefer American-built in all things--but only when the quality exceeds others, not simply because I believe in the faux patriotism of the Big Three.

I worked minimum wage jobs, factory jobs, but only as a means to an end--to get me through school and into jobs not dependent on manufacturing because NAFTA (signed by Bill Clinton!) and the fact 50% of our country being Baby Boomers and 50% of Mexico being under 18 meant the future would be far different from the past.

Rather than go through the normal cycle of non-skilled labor being portable, we have an oppressively expensive Welfare State that means a job at $12 an hour is actually undesirable--yet the skills aren't even up to that low wage. The debts you guys cite are a result of excessive entitlements--to subsidized businesses with political power and to individuals.

Things would balance out--and our immigration problems would be solved, if the safety net was that, not a generational career choice. After all, have an illegitimate baby, Uncle Sugar will give you a place to live, groceries, health care, free schooling, and in Mass.--a car and a cell phone. Pretty enticing--and WE'RE paying for that!

Change is a scary thing, but the problems you guys bemoan is more tax code, failures of personal responsibilities, wacky entitlements, and a lack of perpetration for the jobs that do and will exist, not the jobs that don't and won't. It's also a problem of an aging population.

Lawyers, doctors, computer technicians, and most small business owners are in the "service sector", by the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Kentennis



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 865
Location: Hudson, Fl

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Bill Clinton signed NAFTA into law it was proposed by Ronald Reagan in 1979 and was one of his few programs that he didn't get passed. However the actual agreemant was negotiated and the agreement signed 'Subject to approval by all 3 parliaments', Canada, Mexico and the USA. It passed Congress and the Senate on a bipartisan vote and was THEN signed by Clinton. Who now says he wishes he had vetoed it stating, "I had some bad advice from my economists."

Google: NAFTA timeline and see if it doesn't open your eyes a tad! NAFTA was a pet project of the GOP for YEARS before it became law. And Clinton's signature was just a formality. I don't htink any sitting president has ever gone back on a treaty signed by a previous president. And Bush did sign the original treaty!

And most small businesses FAIL in the first 12 months.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Album
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ascMcLaren Enthusiasts Forum Index -> It's your call. All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Number of shameful bots caught by Anti-Spam ACP: 474