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ascMcLaren Enthusiasts
An asc McLaren forum for ALL Mustang and Capri based cars modified by Automotive Speciality Corporation, a Division of American Sunroof Corporation.
(a trademarked corporation) with no affilation to this site.
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darkhorse40
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 260
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Kentennis
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 865
Location: Hudson, Fl
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 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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The front of the Honda CR-Z looks like a duplicate of a Chrysler product.
Might be, they stole everything else from us under the guise of trading with us. At least in the automotive area! I worked for TRW in Warren, Mich. and troops of Japs would come thru with their little cameras, clicking shots of everything we did. Next thing we knew, they were making replacement parts for US cars in Japan. They didn't want to BUY our products, they wanted to duplicate them and sell the replacement parts here in America.
Employees were not allowed cameras in the building! |
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darkhorse40
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 260
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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We can thank the US goverrnment for sending a guy named W. Charles Demming to Japan after WWII and teaching them all about how to make improvements to manufacturing processes.
They basically taught them how to make stuff better, and then said, hey, now we'll buy your **** to help you rebuild, even though you wanted to take us over.
If they couldn't do it by force, they'll do it with money. The same money that we hand to them every time one of us rolls out of the showroom with one of their pieces of **** that gets recalled for safety and has parts that cost twice as much as they should. I admit I like thier motorcycles, but I would never purchase one new, as that would benefit them directly. (Hope that doesn't make me look two faced.)
I like to rant about the Japanese companies just like Sandy and the German car makers...I hear ya Sandy.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkhorse40/
1991 black on black on black 4 seater
1984 #43 Dark Jade Green
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R |
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Women are the worst offenders! Here in Jersey, at least 75% (if not more!) buy NEW foreign cars. They begin with ToyoPET, or honDUH, or So-sue-key or Key-ya. Later on they move on up to OW-Dee or Miserable Bends or Bowel Movement Working (BMW for short.)
SOoooo, what has this lust for sending American dollars over seas brouight about? HUGE loss of Jobs, comes first.
Assembly Lines closed.
Loss of: Oldsmobile, Pontiac & Saturn at G.M. 50% of G.M. s brands !
Loss of: Imperial, Plymouth. Loss of 50% of Chrysler's Brands
Loss of: Mercury. Loss of 1/3rd of Ford's Brands.
American Brands now number just 8.
You guys now realize after seeing this, what 90% of the "Car-Dum public
has still failed to realize (and they don't really care) !
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.
1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.
http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/ |
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shaolinfox30
Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 323
Location: Ma
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Let me point out that many "domestic" cars/parts are made/manufactured in Canada Mexico etc...
Toyota has plant(s) in the us.
If WE chose not to drop bombs in Hiroshima & Nagasaki, we prob. wouldn't B in such a bind now.
To use the term "Japs" is considered Derogatory these days. (should we all refer to blacks/Jews/Italians & spanish people in a slang manner?) 1of my best friend happens to B half "JAP" & my best friends wife is a "Jap" from JAPan.
The Japanses should B applauded for their unique skillset & attention to detail.
If American consumers/businessmen had enough integrity to buy USA it would not have gotten to this point.
Not trying to B abrasive here: just pointing out some food for thought.
Lets try not to B too critical w/ the "Japs". Think of it this way...if the situation were reversed considering WWII, we would justify all sorts of "stuff"
Remember..... aside from the politicians/military leaders/elite business tycoons,
we're all just a bunch of humans trying to raise families, live life & do the best we can.  |
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, first off. ANY Japanese car/truck built in America by a Japanese Corporation causes themoney to leave the USA., Americans DO work on the assembly lines and yes it gives them the jobs, BUT that is like cutting your nose off to get back at your face!
IF they were not building the Japanese cars, and if more Americans bought American product, then, most probably those same workers would be building American-Branded cars/trucks.
Next:
.
If WE chose not to drop bombs in Hiroshima & Nagasaki, we prob. wouldn't B in such a bind now.
I do not get this point ?? What does this have to do with American branded vehicles being built in the USA?
Next:
Why is it NOT okay to use "Japs" for Japanese ~ yet okay to use "Jews"
for Jewish ? As you did, above??!!
Regarding Japan, they will not allow American corporations (GM, Chrysler, Ford) to purchase land in Japan and build a manufacturing network over there - as "we" allowe them to do here. Is THAT the Japanese way of "fair trade?
Lastly.....I have never ever personally used the term of JAP or Japs.
I do not like it, because it's more oft than not, used in a deroghatory way, and while I think they oft time do not allow the freedoms extended to our manufacturing that we extent to them, referring to them as JAPS
is not nice. I don't use it. Never did - never will >> Ditto "Jew" Same reasoning.
Okay?
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.
1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.
http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/
Last edited by Sandy on Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:22 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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avmtdan
Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 185
Location: Covington, GA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is interesting in our own self professed free market that we have no problem bad mouthing our foreign competitors for simply producing and marketing vehicles better than we could. Competition is healthy, and if it werent for the Japanese kicking our butts in the late 80s early 90s, american vehicles would still be lacking in quality, style, and reliability. While it is perfectly acceptable to purchase a Generic Motors (Government Motors, etc) vehicle whereby 60%+ of the company is now owned by the US Govt and would no longer exist if it wasn't for a bailout that was neither fair to their competitors nor warranted.
Honestly, I would never own an Asian car, not because I don't like Asians, simply because they don't make anything that appeals to me. If that changes, I may change my mind. As for the Germans, I hated Mercedes, then I drove one. I understand people not wanting to by a vehicle from a company that supported a warring nation that was against us at one point, but everyone has been against US at one point, we don't not by the Brits wares because they formally laid claim to us also.
The Japanese did for the automotive industry what Ford did to industrialization, that is make it better, faster, and cheaper than their rivals, and they should not be cursed by those that create lesser vehicles. I love my Mustangs, always have, but every time I work on one I see something that Ford just blatantly did stupid stuff on, particuraly on my 87, to a much lesser extent my 98 (where 40% of the car is japanese, including the transmission that has 260K+ miles and still works great).
Seriously, stop complaining that the car is Japanese or German, start complaining when they fail to stop or catch fire.
My .02
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87 ASC Mclaren Mustang #416 |
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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#67 Black Mac'
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 197
Location: Phx/Humboldt AZ
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:29 am Post subject: |
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Whoa---
After reading these comments,
maybe I had better quickly remove the photo of my 92 Honda Wagon that I just uploaded.
Especially since I am a newby.
I don't want to get blacklisted on this site already.
An "old faut" like me doesn't need new enemies.
I still consider my wagon to be a marvel of engineering from bumper to bumper!
_________________
Favorite rides past & present:
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/album.php?u=13741 |
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shelbyscarab
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| darkhorse40 wrote: | We can thank the US goverrnment for sending a guy named W. Charles Demming to Japan after WWII and teaching them all about how to make improvements to manufacturing processes.
They basically taught them how to make stuff better, and then said, hey, now we'll buy your **** to help you rebuild, even though you wanted to take us over.
If they couldn't do it by force, they'll do it with money. The same money that we hand to them every time one of us rolls out of the showroom with one of their pieces of **** that gets recalled for safety and has parts that cost twice as much as they should. I admit I like thier motorcycles, but I would never purchase one new, as that would benefit them directly. (Hope that doesn't make me look two faced.)
I like to rant about the Japanese companies just like Sandy and the German car makers...I hear ya Sandy. |
Good points. I've never understood why and what the thinking was after we bombed Japan back into the stone age, why the hell did we rebuild the country for them?!!?!?!?!?!? YOu walk away and don't look back.
My grandfather passed on many stories of our country - some good, some bad, but one thing I'll never forget was how he never got over what they did to us in Pearl Harbor. (He was in the Navy) The japanese were in the process of signing some kind of "peace" or alliance treaty with us - when in actuality they were planning the dawn attack. Then we kicked their ass. He always said that after that that they would "get us" back - economicly. The sad thing is, we HAVE given away our trade secrets, managment theories, and manufacturing brilliance to other countries, Japan is just one. and even more sad - its even in vogue now to essentially be "anti-American".
I've never had a problem with German cars (and not because I'm German), they don't really deem a threat in sales like Korean and Japanese cars. aNd frankly, their cars are awesome. I've driven a few MB and BMWs - sorry Sandy, they are good cars - amazing engineering actually. M3. end of story. Maybe Cadillac and Lincoln will get to that level someday. (Caddy is alot closer - Lincoln needs to get their head out of their ass.)
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1988 ASC McLaren #688 |
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shelbyscarab
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Sandy wrote: | Women are the worst offenders! Here in Jersey, at least 75% (if not more!) buy NEW foreign cars. They begin with ToyoPET, or honDUH, or So-sue-key or Key-ya. Later on they move on up to OW-Dee or Miserable Bends or Bowel Movement Working (BMW for short.)
SOoooo, what has this lust for sending American dollars over seas brouight about? HUGE loss of Jobs, comes first.
Assembly Lines closed.
You guys now realize after seeing this, what 90% of the "Car-Dum public
has still failed to realize (and they don't really care) ! |
Sandy, its the urban areas. You really can see a huge difference being in the larger cities vs. the rural areas. Its night and day obvious. kias, hyundais, toys, hondaz, nissans........... are thick in the cities.
The sad thing is the car industry had their chance to do what needed to be done 2 years ago - and probably could've gotten thru it - but they didn't even put it on the table to end - to cut- to dissolve. THe writing is on the wall but no one seems to have the balls to say what needs to be done. Its the elephant in the room - the big bloated spoiled elephant. The truth hurts sometimes.
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1988 ASC McLaren #688 |
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shelbyscarab
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Sandy wrote: | Okay, first off. ANY Japanese car/truck built in America by a Japanese Corporation causes themoney to leave the USA., Americans DO work on the assembly lines and yes it gives them the jobs, BUT that is like cutting your nose off to get back at your face!
IF they were not building the Japanese cars, and if more Americans bought American product, then, most probably those same workers would be building American-Branded cars/trucks.
Next:
Why is it NOT okay to use "Japs" for Japanese ~ yet okay to use "Jews"
for Jewish ? As you did, above??!!
Regarding Japan, they will not allow American corporations (GM, Chrysler, Ford) to purchase land in Japan and build a manufacturing network over there - as "we" allowe them to do here. Is THAT the Japanese way of "fair trade? |
"Regarding Japan, they will not allow American corporations (GM, Chrysler, Ford) to purchase land in Japan and build a manufacturing network over there - as "we" allowe them to do here. Is THAT the Japanese way of "fair trade?" - This is something I have a major problem with and it does irritate the hell out of me. THis fact should be broadcast on every major drive by media network and newspaper. Talk about gall. and yet our leaders let this go. As far as I'm concerned, if Ford-GM-Chrysler can't freely sell cars over there, then all sales of their brands should stop now. 
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1988 ASC McLaren #688 |
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avmtdan
Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 185
Location: Covington, GA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've never understood why and what the thinking was after we bombed Japan back into the stone age, why the hell did we rebuild the country for them?!!?!?!?!?!? YOu walk away and don't look back. |
I understand where you are coming from here with this thought, here is a few theories, I wasn't there so I don't know, and I am not a politician so I won't lie to you about it. First, remember WW1? WW1 set up Europe and the Americas for WW2, what I mean is this, the restrictions on Germany that was placed on them after the war completely decimated their economy, destroyed their way of life, and removed any and all hope of them being restored to a formidable European power. All this was done after the agreed cease fire between the axis and allies, under the guise that the Axis would be treated fairly. Now mind you that WW1 was not started to gain power from one nation to another, it was a powder keg caused by the very alliances that were supposed to keep wars from happening in the first place (think of it this way, you and your neighbor agree to defend eachother should you be attacked, you also allow neighbors 4-10 into this pack, neighbor 2 has a disagreement with neighbor 11 and they get to fighting, but neighbor 11 is allied with 12-20, soon 1-10 is fighting to protect 2 from 11, and 12-20 respond in kind). So post WW1 after all the millions of people have died and a generations worth of young men are now feeding the daisies we have a just as polarized environment pre ww1, but thrown in with the complete inability for basic services such as food, water, shelter and jobs. It set up the environment for the Nazi nut jobs to come in and rally the people together under one banner with the promise they can make it better.
-The reason we rebuilt Europe and Japan, the hope that by ensuring that these powers, even though they were defeated, could some how be self sustaining and exist on their own for their own purposes without looking at their neighbors as a source of food and power. How do you do this? Trade and production, if you have something to offer you have power, nothing to offer, your a beggar or thief.
The Japanese were operating on the notion that if they destroyed the American Pacific fleet that the US would stay OUT of the war and let them have a run at Asia, which they did anyway with quite some success. The mistake was making the attack a sneak attack and causing the uproar it did. If they had declared war a day earlier it would not have been as bad of a shock, and since we were, at the time Isolationists who were more than happy to watch the Germans blitzkrieg across Europe and only sending a few supplies to the Brits, what would be our reason for going to war now? The sneak attack was a bloodied nose on the Americans, something we could look at and see, and we responded in the way we should have two years prior by helping out the Europeans before pursuing Japan.
Your grandfather should never forget what has happened, neither should those that have never had it happen to them, what can be done is to fight back, win, and move on. We won, we wipe two cities off the face of the planet to ensure that THEY knew that WE won. The victor is not victorious until the defeated considers himself so. I completely agree with the thought that we HAD to drop these bombs as a symbol of our power and to break the will of the Japanese, the kamikazes and banzai charges were still going on because the Japanese believed they could win, even with no resources, no navy, no air force, and no other options left.
As for trade secrets, what trade secrets? Post WWII your small country is now completely protected by a much larger world power, who sells with you and is helping you rebuild. You no longer have a need for a military, you have plenty of production facilities, and plenty of post war raw materials at your disposal. Not having a military, nor having to pay for or feed one, you can now use that surplus or lack of expense and pour money into research and production. The Japanese were fanatical warriors, don't you think they would be decent researchers and developers? Once they grab onto an idea they go all out until it is right. The ideas that the Japanese developed post world war were not carbon copies of what the US showed them, they took our tools, made them better, marketed them to the world, and sold them for a profit, and god bless them for doing it.
Speaking of rebuilding, why did the US help rebuild Japan and Germany but not China who was victimized horribly by the Japanese? Communism, soviets took that role and showed them their own way of life, one that we did not want to have any part of. So now that Europe is in ruins, Japan is gone, the Russians have the largest most powerful force to be reckoned with, and it is starting to look like your former ally by necessity may be your next enemy, do you abandon your new conquests to let them rot or be taken over by the new threat at the gates, or do you rebuild and show these conquered peoples your own way of life in hopes that your way is better, stronger, faster, more efficient etc and hope that you can preserve that very way of life?
| Quote: | | Maybe Cadillac and Lincoln will get to that level someday. (Caddy is alot closer - Lincoln needs to get their head out of their ass.) |
Doubtful, there is too much stigma about both of these manufacturers, not necessarily caused by their own marketing, but definitely not removed by it either. When I think Caddy I think either Rich old White Guy, or broke Black Guy. Seriously, see any middle aged middle class or young kids driving these cars? They are huge land yachts of vehicles that while comfortable, don't offer a whole lot to look at on the outside. They may be great cars, they just fit too well into the stereo type kind of vehicles. Same thing with Lincoln, they are nice cars, and I almost bought an MKZ AWD, but when I told anyone I was looking at a Lincoln they all asked if I was planning on retiring soon (I am 30 by the way). The MKZ is a fine driving machine, but its still too generic looking, and too closely resembles some Japanese imports.
As for Japan not allowing the US to build plants in Japan, first we wouldn't do it. It is too costly, Japan doesn't even build vehicles in Japan. The cost of transporting raw materials to and from the island nation are too great, that is why you see so many Japanese plants here, even though our labor rates are notoriously higher than most other countries. Second, look at unemployment rates, Japans lowest rate was is 1968 at 1% percent. Thats right, ONE PERCENT! The highest was of 09 at 5.6%, and currently is less than 5. Why would you allow a foreign company to purchase land that you already have very little of (Japan is about the size of California) and put up a factory that will provide no real benefit for your job market? 5% is roughly an average turnover rate in most full time workforces per year.
My .04
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87 ASC Mclaren Mustang #416 |
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darkhorse40
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 260
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to say that I stand corrected on some point without spelling them out. It is probably obvious what they are.....but...
Never..... in my life.....have I caused such a stir.
My father served in three branches of the service in WWII, the Chicago PD, and the US Gov. His views have a strong influence on my favoring "American Made".
But let us face facts.....A good product is just that. People will buy it, and that is more than fair.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkhorse40/
1991 black on black on black 4 seater
1984 #43 Dark Jade Green
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R |
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shelbyscarab
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| avmtdan wrote: | | Quote: | | I've never understood why and what the thinking was after we bombed Japan back into the stone age, why the hell did we rebuild the country for them?!!?!?!?!?!? YOu walk away and don't look back. |
I understand where you are coming from here with this thought, here is a few theories, I wasn't there so I don't know, and I am not a politician so I won't lie to you about it. First, remember WW1? WW1 set up Europe and the Americas for WW2, what I mean is this, the restrictions on Germany that was placed on them after the war completely decimated their economy, destroyed their way of life, and removed any and all hope of them being restored to a formidable European power. All this was done after the agreed cease fire between the axis and allies, under the guise that the Axis would be treated fairly. Now mind you that WW1 was not started to gain power from one nation to another, it was a powder keg caused by the very alliances that were supposed to keep wars from happening in the first place (think of it this way, you and your neighbor agree to defend eachother should you be attacked, you also allow neighbors 4-10 into this pack, neighbor 2 has a disagreement with neighbor 11 and they get to fighting, but neighbor 11 is allied with 12-20, soon 1-10 is fighting to protect 2 from 11, and 12-20 respond in kind). So post WW1 after all the millions of people have died and a generations worth of young men are now feeding the daisies we have a just as polarized environment pre ww1, but thrown in with the complete inability for basic services such as food, water, shelter and jobs. It set up the environment for the Nazi nut jobs to come in and rally the people together under one banner with the promise they can make it better.
-The reason we rebuilt Europe and Japan, the hope that by ensuring that these powers, even though they were defeated, could some how be self sustaining and exist on their own for their own purposes without looking at their neighbors as a source of food and power. How do you do this? Trade and production, if you have something to offer you have power, nothing to offer, your a beggar or thief.
The Japanese were operating on the notion that if they destroyed the American Pacific fleet that the US would stay OUT of the war and let them have a run at Asia, which they did anyway with quite some success. The mistake was making the attack a sneak attack and causing the uproar it did. If they had declared war a day earlier it would not have been as bad of a shock, and since we were, at the time Isolationists who were more than happy to watch the Germans blitzkrieg across Europe and only sending a few supplies to the Brits, what would be our reason for going to war now? The sneak attack was a bloodied nose on the Americans, something we could look at and see, and we responded in the way we should have two years prior by helping out the Europeans before pursuing Japan.
Your grandfather should never forget what has happened, neither should those that have never had it happen to them, what can be done is to fight back, win, and move on. We won, we wipe two cities off the face of the planet to ensure that THEY knew that WE won. The victor is not victorious until the defeated considers himself so. I completely agree with the thought that we HAD to drop these bombs as a symbol of our power and to break the will of the Japanese, the kamikazes and banzai charges were still going on because the Japanese believed they could win, even with no resources, no navy, no air force, and no other options left.
As for trade secrets, what trade secrets? Post WWII your small country is now completely protected by a much larger world power, who sells with you and is helping you rebuild. You no longer have a need for a military, you have plenty of production facilities, and plenty of post war raw materials at your disposal. Not having a military, nor having to pay for or feed one, you can now use that surplus or lack of expense and pour money into research and production. The Japanese were fanatical warriors, don't you think they would be decent researchers and developers? Once they grab onto an idea they go all out until it is right. The ideas that the Japanese developed post world war were not carbon copies of what the US showed them, they took our tools, made them better, marketed them to the world, and sold them for a profit, and god bless them for doing it.
Speaking of rebuilding, why did the US help rebuild Japan and Germany but not China who was victimized horribly by the Japanese? Communism, soviets took that role and showed them their own way of life, one that we did not want to have any part of. So now that Europe is in ruins, Japan is gone, the Russians have the largest most powerful force to be reckoned with, and it is starting to look like your former ally by necessity may be your next enemy, do you abandon your new conquests to let them rot or be taken over by the new threat at the gates, or do you rebuild and show these conquered peoples your own way of life in hopes that your way is better, stronger, faster, more efficient etc and hope that you can preserve that very way of life?
| Quote: | | Maybe Cadillac and Lincoln will get to that level someday. (Caddy is alot closer - Lincoln needs to get their head out of their ass.) |
Doubtful, there is too much stigma about both of these manufacturers, not necessarily caused by their own marketing, but definitely not removed by it either. When I think Caddy I think either Rich old White Guy, or broke Black Guy. Seriously, see any middle aged middle class or young kids driving these cars? They are huge land yachts of vehicles that while comfortable, don't offer a whole lot to look at on the outside. They may be great cars, they just fit too well into the stereo type kind of vehicles. Same thing with Lincoln, they are nice cars, and I almost bought an MKZ AWD, but when I told anyone I was looking at a Lincoln they all asked if I was planning on retiring soon (I am 30 by the way). The MKZ is a fine driving machine, but its still too generic looking, and too closely resembles some Japanese imports.
As for Japan not allowing the US to build plants in Japan, first we wouldn't do it. It is too costly, Japan doesn't even build vehicles in Japan. The cost of transporting raw materials to and from the island nation are too great, that is why you see so many Japanese plants here, even though our labor rates are notoriously higher than most other countries. Second, look at unemployment rates, Japans lowest rate was is 1968 at 1% percent. Thats right, ONE PERCENT! The highest was of 09 at 5.6%, and currently is less than 5. Why would you allow a foreign company to purchase land that you already have very little of (Japan is about the size of California) and put up a factory that will provide no real benefit for your job market? 5% is roughly an average turnover rate in most full time workforces per year.
My .04 |
Good post. I agree with almost everything. Wish I could write more now, don't have time.
Everyone have great weekend!
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1988 ASC McLaren #688 |
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