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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: The great GS debate... |
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I have always wondered about seeing full documentation on one of these "GS" cars that was built/optioned like an RS car with sport seats and air dam, etc. Looking at some pictures on this site, I saw something that caught my eye:
http://www.ascmclarencoupe.com/phpBB/album_pic.php?pic_id=401
Hmmm.....a "GS" on a GP4??? This car appears very original and the odds that it would have had a paint job or a hatch swapped is probably pretty darn remote.
And as luck would have it, RARE-ASC had posted the WINDOW STICKER:
http://www.ascmclarencoupe.com/phpBB/album_pic.php?pic_id=353
and BUILD SHEET:
http://www.ascmclarencoupe.com/phpBB/album_pic.php?pic_id=346
I can find nothing that remotely corresponds to a "GS". The window sticker says "5.0L" and is printed exactly like I would expect a "5.0L" (RS) car to be printed.
So do we have proof that Ford was MISBADGING 5.0L Capris in 1985 with the GS tag? I seriously think so now....unless somebody is going to say they were doing something weird with the GP4 builds....and only using GS cars but building them like RS cars?
RARE-ASC, do you have the buck tag...and does it say "CRS" on it?
-Mike
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plumkrazy
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Ann Arbor Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:50 am Post subject: |
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you noticed that also
My 86 had it but it was a 4cyl I took the GS off because it did not match the other letters |
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RARE-ASC
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 1198
Location: Canton Ga
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Yes the buck tag is in place as you would expect on this one i will try to take a photo of it but not to accessable will try to find the crs letters what does that staind for?
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negusm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| RARE-ASC wrote: | | Yes the buck tag is in place as you would expect on this one i will try to take a photo of it but not to accessable will try to find the crs letters what does that staind for? |
All 5.0L (RS) cars got "CRS" stamped on their buck tag. That is how you can tell your car is an RS car or not.
-Mike
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75coug
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Van Alstyne, TX
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: |
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A major breakthrough after all this time! Nice work, Mike.
At this point, I suspect that there was a senile line worker who was nearing retirement in 1985 and 1986, and who randomly stuck "GS" badges on Capris that passed him on the line, whether the cars were actually supposed to have them or not.
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1989 ascMcLaren convertible - royal gold
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85GPIV
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Lemoore, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: |
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I can tell you that my GPIV does have the CRS on the buck tag. That was one of the first things I checked. And my car also has the GS tag on the hatch.
I know this discussion has been ongoing for awhile, but to me it seems pretty clear. I believe somewhere in early-to-mid 1985, Mercury dropped the RS name and put all 5.0L equipped cars into the GS category. Yes, they still had the CRS buck tag, because they were still being built the same. It was just a superficial name change. The timing of this also directly corresponds to the dropping of the RS side molding directly behind the doors. Anyway, just my $0.02...
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1979 Capri RS, you name it and it's been modified! Check out my website.
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fredzilla
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 155
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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plumbcrazy wrote
| Quote: | | My 86 had it but it was a 4cyl I took the GS off because it did not match the other letters |
Wouldn't a 4cyl be a GS model..?
I also remember reading that the GP4
started as GS. but, it is built like a RS. I also thought that a GS
with the 5.0L would come with automatic only ?
Also,look at the picture of 85GPIV front grill it appears to be a GS
grill.. |
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negusm
Site Admin
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| fredzilla wrote: | plumbcrazy wrote
| Quote: | | My 86 had it but it was a 4cyl I took the GS off because it did not match the other letters |
Wouldn't a 4cyl be a GS model..?
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Yes. All 4cyl 85s are GS cars.
| Quote: | I also remember reading that the GP4
started as GS. but, it is built like a RS. I also thought that a GS
with the 5.0L would come with automatic only ? |
That is what the books say. But they also say that the GS w/5.0 was to not get a front air dam and sport seats. If you wanted that you had to go with the "5.0L" (non GS) version of the car.
The Motorsport Registry page does say that the cars were "GS" cars. But on RARE-ASCs GP4, the window sticker CLEARLY states it is a "5.0L" car and not a GS.
| Quote: |
Also,look at the picture of 85GPIV front grill it appears to be a GS
grill.. |
How so? All of them look blacked out to me....like a 5.0L car should be. Which picture?
-Mike
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
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Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| 85GPIV wrote: | I can tell you that my GPIV does have the CRS on the buck tag. That was one of the first things I checked. And my car also has the GS tag on the hatch.
I know this discussion has been ongoing for awhile, but to me it seems pretty clear. I believe somewhere in early-to-mid 1985, Mercury dropped the RS name and put all 5.0L equipped cars into the GS category. Yes, they still had the CRS buck tag, because they were still being built the same. It was just a superficial name change. The timing of this also directly corresponds to the dropping of the RS side molding directly behind the doors. Anyway, just my $0.02... |
E - X - A - C - T - L - Y ! ! ! 
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
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Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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From all I've seen, read & heard, here is my take this:-
In late December, in preperation for mid year changes (famous for February) I have reason to believe that the nomenclature of GS / RS was dropped. It seems that cars ordered with the V-8 automatically received the "Sport Seats", and cars with the 6 Cyl. or the 4 Cyl. received the regular seats. The lower bodyside charcoal "accent" paint under the bumpers & lower sides actually had a name, "Sports Package" and included the Foggies. Obviously this was made an automatic standard feature when the V-8 was ordered. You'll notice that the revised brochure of February 1985 parted the two models as the Capri GS and the Capri 5.0 (or Five Litre). So, I think this reasoning seems correct.
What I do not ever recall seeing in person was a bubble back (1983-1986) V-8 ( RS or 5.0 Litre) with sport seats in a color other than Sand Beige or Charcoal Grey. Cannot ever recall seeing a Canyon Red or (Regatta ?) Blue, or ANY other INTERIOR color.
It's too bad that on the Sports Seats they chose NOT to offer leather ! (Mustang had it on the convertible (only).
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1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.
http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/ |
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Euro#13
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 85GPIV wrote: | I can tell you that my GPIV does have the CRS on the buck tag. That was one of the first things I checked. And my car also has the GS tag on the hatch.
I know this discussion has been ongoing for awhile, but to me it seems pretty clear. I believe somewhere in early-to-mid 1985, Mercury dropped the RS name and put all 5.0L equipped cars into the GS category. Yes, they still had the CRS buck tag, because they were still being built the same. It was just a superficial name change. The timing of this also directly corresponds to the dropping of the RS side molding directly behind the doors. Anyway, just my $0.02... |
That makes sense to me too. When my sister was working for Ford she was able to get me into the DAP and we had a great time. We were able to do a self-guided tour so we weren't restricted and went anywhere we wanted to. We talked to several people working on the line trying to find someone that would have been there during the mid-eighties that would have put together a Capri, but after talking to 1/2 dozen people it was clear that a majority of the workers really weren't "car people" and to them it was just a job.
If you think about it, when the marketing people back then decided to make the change and drop the "RS" name the management probably figured that the easiest way to not confuse anyone on the line was to continue to internally code the cars as "CRS". Especially since the car was basically equipped the same as and it was only a change in what the car was going to be called and not how it was built on the line save for a belt moulding which now all would come from the same bin anyway.
As for the improperly applied "GS" badges.
This whole issue seems to be confusing for us die-hard Carpi fans trying to figure out what happened and why, can you imagine what it was like for a "non-car-person" line worker who has probably less than 20 seconds to decide whether or not this car going by him/her on the assembly line is to get this "GS" badge or not. Or maybe there was an error in the build computer that told the line worker to apply the "GS" badge.
Brent
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svt1996cobra
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 360
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject: RS/GS Debate |
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I worked at a dealership in 1985, there was a memo stating, the RS was dropped in the US market, and the Cars would be called a Capri 5.0L GS, you no longer could get a Capri RS. I believe it would have been December when it was released, I had originally thought the last date you could get a RS was 3/85, but I have went through my 20's and we all know what that does to you! I have several people trying to find that memo for me!
David
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negusm
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 5183
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: RS/GS Debate |
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| svt1996cobra wrote: | I worked at a dealership in 1985, there was a memo stating, the RS was dropped in the US market, and the Cars would be called a Capri 5.0L GS, you no longer could get a Capri RS. I believe it would have been December when it was released, I had originally thought the last date you could get a RS was 3/85, but I have went through my 20's and we all know what that does to you! I have several people trying to find that memo for me!
David |
Wouldn't that be cool if you found something like that.
-Mike
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fredzilla
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 155
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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negusm wrote
| Quote: | | How so? All of them look blacked out to me....like a 5.0L car should be. Which picture? |
The first pic..Maybe, its the light ?
I dont recall seeing any 86's with a CRS buck tag and a GS hatch tag
nor, have i seen a 86 GS with the fuel injected 5.0 L .Which,I see you could get.
I have seen the red seats though.. |
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1985 Motorsport Capri
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Dearborn, MI / Richmond, VA USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: |
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So do we have proof that Ford was MISBADGING 5.0L Capris in 1985 with the GS tag? I seriously think so now....unless somebody is going to say they were doing something weird with the GP4 builds....and only using GS cars but building them like RS cars?
all 1985 Motorsport Capri's (please people, lets start calling it by its real name, not GPIV) were built from Capri GS models. all Motorsport Capris were all GS models!!!! it wasnt a idiot running the badge section at the plant. The Capri GS with 5.0 was available in 1985 with an automatic & the efi engine. The GS with 5-speed was not available in 85 except in the Motorsports. the 5 speed may have been addded as an option on the GS after the discontinuation of the RS.
i have a section on this issue in the upcoming Registry website.
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1985 Mercury Motorsport Capri Registry
www.Motorsportcapri.com |
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