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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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dahberg
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 329
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 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely not original on a 1985 or 1986 model by any means... the stitching is completely wrong all around on this top.
There are a few more pictures of members cars in the albums for 85 & 86 verts here on this website with the correct top. |
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#67 Black Mac'
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 197
Location: Phx/Humboldt AZ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Is it possible that ASC used two different style of tops?
One for the earlier Capri & the other, (like the one shown in the link above for) the later Mustang.
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svo413
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 753
Location: San Mateo, California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: Top |
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I think Sandy was pointing out the windows only. The Mustangs do have a different top and the bow spacing is different. Also notice the welting around the plastic windows on the Mustangs..
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Kevin Gold card MCA Judge for Fox Body
85 ASC Vert #612205
88 ASC Vert #542 20,550 miles
84 SVO 24,000 miles, 84 GT Turbo Vert.
03 Mach I, 89 LX Vert, 74 Mustang II
14 CA Special, 69 Mustang coupe, 07 GT500
67 T-bird, 15 F150 Tuscany, 16 F250 |
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KHummel66
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 450
Location: Troy (Dayton) OH
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| #67 Black Mac' wrote: | Is it possible that ASC used two different style of tops?
One for the earlier Capri & the other, (like the one shown in the link above for) the later Mustang. |
Since seemingly every single Capri 'vert ever seen has a different top design from the one on Sandy's Mustang, but they are all the same as each other; and they are the same as dahberg’s original, it sure seems so.
In looking through the various pics in the albums, it appears that the Capris and Series I Mustangs have the same design top (a two piece with a horizontal seam going back from the top corner of the door glass, and quarter windows as tall as the rear window), while the Series II Mustangs are different (a four piece design with seams running all the way front to back a few inches in from the door glass and a diagonal seam up from the bottom rear corner of the glass, with quarter windows shorter than the rear window).
| svo413 wrote: | | I think Sandy was pointing out the windows only. The Mustangs do have a different top and the bow spacing is different. Also notice the welting around the plastic windows on the Mustangs.. |
Since Sandy's reference on the smaller window size is the Series II Mustang top, I'm not so sure there is a noticeable difference on the Capri top’s quarter windows between original and aftermarket.
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1986 ASC vert - #86-0001
1986 ASC vert - 3.8SC v6
1986 ASC vert - Silver/Black/Gray
1985 ASC vert - Black/Tan/Tan
1985 GPIV - The Official Pace Car
1985 ASC coupe - modified
1985 ASC coupe - roller
1983 Crimson Cat V6
1966 Cobra replica |
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Next time I go over to Car-Condo I will take a LED Flashlight and my reading glases & get the codes off it's back plastic window. It's the original top.
I think the 84 & 85 Capri based mcLarens tops were slightly different in size and stitching. But I do believe 86 Capri and the Mustang based ones had the same roof. The easiest way to tell is by the top to bottom height of the smaller plastic windows.
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Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.
1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.
http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/ |
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shelbyscarab
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: HERE IS A PIC OF AN ORIGINAL ROOF |
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I've got news for you Sandy, my original top (blue with white stitching (yuck)) did not have those odd shaped corner windows (4 points) and it did not have that diagonal seam coming down the sides.
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1988 ASC McLaren #688 |
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#67 Black Mac'
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 197
Location: Phx/Humboldt AZ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: HERE IS A PIC OF AN ORIGINAL ROOF |
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| shelbyscarab wrote: | | I've got news for you Sandy, my original top (blue with white stitching (yuck)) did not have those odd shaped corner windows (4 points) and it did not have that diagonal seam coming down the sides. |
I went to your album to see a photo of your top, but I guess we all tend to take more photos of our convertibles with the top down than with it up huh!
Ron
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shelbyscarab
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1009
Location: The Buckeye State
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: HERE IS A PIC OF AN ORIGINAL ROOF |
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| #67 Black Mac' wrote: | | shelbyscarab wrote: | | I've got news for you Sandy, my original top (blue with white stitching (yuck)) did not have those odd shaped corner windows (4 points) and it did not have that diagonal seam coming down the sides. |
I went to your album to see a photo of your top, but I guess we all tend to take more photos of our convertibles with the top down than with it up huh!
Ron |
Well that wouldn't help, I have a new replacement top on it that I love. I did save the original top. I could lay it out and take pictures of it.
Regardless, I'm due to get some new pics up - Those are old. Need to get new shots with the new "shoes" it has.
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1988 ASC McLaren #688 |
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that convert stitching style is 1989 & 1990 only. It is identical to the 2-seat Mercedes coupr/convert of that timeframe. I picked that photo ONLY for the size and shape of the small plastic corner windows !!!!
That was how the 1986 (Capri) and 1987-1990 'Stangs were made.
The cars with small windows that are the same height as the major BIG window are replacement after market, while tops with the slightly smaller in north-south direction are oem.
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.
1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.
http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/ |
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KHummel66
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 450
Location: Troy (Dayton) OH
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Sandy wrote: | Yes, that convert stitching style is 1989 & 1990 only. It is identical to the 2-seat Mercedes coupr/convert of that timeframe. I picked that photo ONLY for the size and shape of the small plastic corner windows !!!!
That was how the 1986 (Capri) and 1987-1990 'Stangs were made.
The cars with small windows that are the same height as the major BIG window are replacement after market, while tops with the slightly smaller in north-south direction are oem. |
What am I missing, why am I not getting this? Maybe the size difference of the quarter windows on the Capris and 87-88 Mustangs relative to the rear window is so slight, it is imperceptible to my eyes; whereas the size difference on the 89-90s is obvious?
Here is a pic from the ascMcLaren Capri ‘vert brochure along with dahberg’s, Kentennis’s, and #67 BlackMac’s top pics, as well as Sandy’s Mustang pic. The quarter windows on the 4 Capris all look the same size to me, they are not as small as the ones on Sandy’s Mustang, and none look smaller than the rear window. The one in the brochure wouldn’t be an aftermarket top, so if the other 3 Capris have the same size quarter windows as it, why are they aftermarket vs. there being a difference between the Capri/Series I quarter windows and the Series II quarter windows?
| dahberg wrote: | Looks the same as my ORIGINAL top... 
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| #67 Black Mac' wrote: | | Any of you have photos of a certifiably original cloth top on an 84-86 ASC? |
| Kentennis wrote: | | I have 3 pics in my album but only 1 is a fairly close shot. Why do you need them? |
| #67 Black Mac' wrote: | | PS yours looks like mine as far as I can see other than the color (oh yeah mine sags while yours appears to be tight.) |
 [/quote]
http://www.ascmclaren.org/phpBB/album_pic.php?pic_id=194
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1986 ASC vert - #86-0001
1986 ASC vert - 3.8SC v6
1986 ASC vert - Silver/Black/Gray
1985 ASC vert - Black/Tan/Tan
1985 GPIV - The Official Pace Car
1985 ASC coupe - modified
1985 ASC coupe - roller
1983 Crimson Cat V6
1966 Cobra replica |
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Sandy
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 6205
Location: Northern New Jersey GSP Exit 148
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I know that the stitching is different.
Regarding the size of the 2 small plastic windows.....
When I see a 1988-1990 with the larger-sized small windows,
then I know it's a replacement top.
It might be a OEM ascMcLaren replacement top OR
some other company's copy-cat top, but it's
a replacement top. 1987, I recall seeing A FEW examples
with the newER top's smaller windows. So, I would GUESS that
ascMcLaren may have changed manufacturer's during 1987 production.
Later this afternoon I will truy to get over to Car Condo with eyeglasses, flashlight and try to get the code off my 1990.
Remember that they had a ton of convertible top COLORS, so maybe they also had more than 1 source for the tops/windows. But I never saw such LARGE "little" corner windows, until the cars were old enough to need new tops.
Tan, Black, Dark Brown, Dark Blue, Burgundy, White,
and stillborn Light Grey.
_________________
Sandy passed away in 2012. He will be forever missed.
1990 Final Car prior to the 12 Silver Anny Editions
1990 Silver Pearl Anny Edition
1986 Coupe Full Pkg #109 of 114.
http://public.fotki.com/ascmclaren/ascmclaren_capris/sandys_mclarens/ |
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dahberg
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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This whole discussion started with a request by Ron for 84-86 pictures of an original top. Not sure why it has digressed to looking at 87-90 Mustang roof tops? I clearly see a difference in the printed sales brouchure for the Eurostyle Cambria cloth top versus the original Cambria cloth top on my 85 as the placement of the side window appears closer to the stitching running across the upper backside of the top and the side window looks as if it may be a little smaller in height than the large center window with the bottom of the smaller pane being up a little higher. It is definitely positioned somewhat differently overall. Obviously there were more than one roof top style used or the promo brouchure was sent out with a picture of a mock up version top of the final production vehicles.
Regardless, my top is original, not a replacement and it appears many other memebers on this site owning 84-86 McLarens have the same style top. Hope this helps Ron! |
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#67 Black Mac'
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 197
Location: Phx/Humboldt AZ
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dahberg wrote: | This whole discussion started with a request by Ron for 84-86 pictures of an original top. Not sure why it has digressed to looking at 87-90 Mustang roof tops? I clearly see a difference in the printed sales brouchure for the Eurostyle Cambria cloth top versus the original Cambria cloth top on my 85 as the placement of the side window appears closer to the stitching running across the upper backside of the top and the side window looks as if it may be a little smaller in height than the large center window with the bottom of the smaller pane being up a little higher. It is definitely positioned somewhat differently overall. Obviously there were more than one roof top style used or the promo brouchure was sent out with a picture of a mock up version top of the final production vehicles.
Regardless, my top is original, not a replacement and it appears many other memebers on this site owning 84-86 McLarens have the same style top. Hope this helps Ron! |
Thanks Dahberg,
I agree, ASC utilized some variety in the tops that they placed on the convertibles throughout the seven years of production. Maybe they even used different tops within the same model year.
It's a shame that there isn't a knowledge base on the 84-86 models as there is (thanks mainly to Sandy) on the later Mustang units.
I am still not sure whether my top is original since it does not have the letters/numbers imprinted in the lower left portion of the center window. Yes, to me, it looks like yours & Kens, but without the imprints I am still unsure. Especially since the color is different than the info that ASC released for 85 black exterior models. All I really have to go on is a rumor about one black convertible with black top made in 85, and the POs belief that it still had the original top.
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dahberg
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Ron, if you are looking for a stamp in the plastic window, keep in mind the plastic window might be a replacement while the top is original. The original window may have cracked or turned yellow or clouded up due to various reasons and required replacement. I had one repleaced in a 1965 Mustang once due to a hole poked in the plastic during sub-zero temps in the winter and using a window sweep hap-hazardly to clear off snow...  Looked like new after installment! |
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