The Yellow '89 (Check this out Sandy)

[Sandy]

Thanks. I've stayed home so long & so much that I can describe in detail cracks in the walls !

[ASCMCLRN]

Sorry. I have had exchanges in the past with this group as well as Brad Bowling. They tend to look down at ascMcLarens, and do not consider them "worthwhile" ~ Furthermore they consider them aftermarket.

Now, you will also find that you can't tell them anything. The fact that OUR cars were issued their own build code (D32) ~ the fact that FoMoCo MADE incomplete Mustangs, made to the specs submitted by ASC AND built our cars to those incomplete specs, at the same time that Steve Saleen was buying IN STOCK Mustangs off of dealer's lots to convert at his shop, is lost on them. Head in sand syndrome. They will also always point to the low sales numbers of our cars and the high sales numbers of theirs - - BUT from 1984-1989 we were either ahead of them, or pretty close, but it's a losing battle with that group. Brad has penned several books both on Saleens AND Mustangs. Never a paragraph (even), on our cars.
A 3rd party (a non McLaren owner) once told me he called them "Abortions".

Sandy, I am flabergasted about this. I read some of their website and see what you are talking about not being able to tell them anything, they clearly say it too. They seem to be very knowledgeable, dedicated individuals with some nice credentials. How could they simply ignore a relevent part of the Mustang's history? I think the only drawback on the ASC's is the fact that it somewhat contradicts the Mustang phylosophy on a few stand points. First affordability which isnt much of a factor being a limited edition, second performance, last identity removed from being a Ford or a Mustang (all stock badges, emblems removed for its own identity the ASC, btw I like the cleaner looks). This was more of an expensive clean looking luxury cruiser. In comparison to Saleen you've pointed out the ASC had more of Ford's blessings and better sales. They both were expensive however the Saleen is performance oriented with brakes, handling, and race proven. Well to each their own but how do they explain the ASC's existence and not include their stats? Any non bias person would scratch their head on this one imo.

Nick

[ASCMCLRN]

Here are the production figures:

1984: Saleen = 003 ascMcLaren = 0,075
1985: Saleen = 141 ascMcLaren = 0,407
1986: Saleen = 199 ascMcLaren = 0,436
1987: Saleen = 287 ascMcLaren = 0.479
1988: Saleen = 708 ascMcLaren = 1,015
1989: Saleen = 891 ascMcLaren = 0.247
1990: Saleen = 222 AscMcLaren = 0,065

Totals = 2,442 - VS - 2,724

Advantage ? ascMcLaren by 282 units !!

The ascMcLaren had been slated tio run thru the end of the 1993 model run, ending with the redesigned 1984 Mustang, but there were big, and I mean BIG fights between Peter Muscat and those in charge at Ford.
Thusly, they built the orders "on hand" for 1990s & closed up shop.
The car was to be continued thru August of 1993, with bacically new colors and higher prices. There never was a program past 1993.

Sandy I believe the fights were with Peter Muscat and ASC unless you are saying that he was having serious issues with both Ford and ASC? When I spoke to him on the phone he said that they wanted to cut to many corners damaging the integrity and he no longer wanted his name on it and pulled the plug. Sandy would you agree the fact that Ford originally made plans only until 93 for the ASc might have been because the Mustangs future was in question at the time? If you remember they were considering the Probe replace or be the newer Mustang until protests made them see the light.

Nick

[Sandy]

Everything you wrote is right on the $$$ !
As a side thought .... Most ASC )American Sun Roof Limited Edition Cars are just that >> Limited << ~ So, a 8 year run (1984-1993) woulda been a looong run !! !! With a different body shell, the tonneau & conv't. roof would definately need to be redesigned, and that just for starters. Just a thought...

[tfs2121]

Sorry. I have had exchanges in the past with this group as well as Brad Bowling. They tend to look down at ascMcLarens, and do not consider them "worthwhile" ~ Furthermore they consider them aftermarket.

Now, you will also find that you can't tell them anything. The fact that OUR cars were issued their own build code (D32) ~ the fact that FoMoCo MADE incomplete Mustangs, made to the specs submitted by ASC AND built our cars to those incomplete specs, at the same time that Steve Saleen was buying IN STOCK Mustangs off of dealer's lots to convert at his shop, is lost on them. Head in sand syndrome. They will also always point to the low sales numbers of our cars and the high sales numbers of theirs - - BUT from 1984-1989 we were either ahead of them, or pretty close, but it's a losing battle with that group. Brad has penned several books both on Saleens AND Mustangs. Never a paragraph (even), on our cars.
A 3rd party (a non McLaren owner) once told me he called them "Abortions".

Sandy, I am flabergasted about this. I read some of their website and see what you are talking about not being able to tell them anything, they clearly say it too. They seem to be very knowledgeable, dedicated individuals with some nice credentials. How could they simply ignore a relevent part of the Mustang's history? I think the only drawback on the ASC's is the fact that it somewhat contradicts the Mustang phylosophy on a few stand points. First affordability which isnt much of a factor being a limited edition, second performance, last identity removed from being a Ford or a Mustang (all stock badges, emblems removed for its own identity the ASC, btw I like the cleaner looks). This was more of an expensive clean looking luxury cruiser. In comparison to Saleen you've pointed out the ASC had more of Ford's blessings and better sales. They both were expensive however the Saleen is performance oriented with brakes, handling, and race proven. Well to each their own but how do they explain the ASC's existence and not include their stats? Any non bias person would scratch their head on this one imo.

Nick

i think that not only are mustang owners looking for price, speed, and identity. they are looking for a car that will hold a family of 4. thats what i think holds the asc verts back more then the rest.

[Sandy]

I don't agree.
Ask Mercedes Benz SL & SLK owners, BMW Z owners, Jaguar XK owners, Corvette Owners, Audi TT owners, Mazda Miada owners, as well as T-Bird owners of recent years. Those type of buyers ARE out there. But, yes, they are a "speciality buyer" -- but look how terrific the Mini sales are !!

[tfs2121]

I don't agree.
Ask Mercedes Benz SL & SLK owners, BMW Z owners, Jaguar XK owners, Corvette Owners, Audi TT owners, Mazda Miada owners, as well as T-Bird owners of recent years. Those type of buyers ARE out there. But, yes, they are a "speciality buyer" -- but look how terrific the Mini sales are !!

the asc vert is still a mustang... the mustang was built to hold 4. if i wanted a 2 seater your right i would go buy one of the cars you have listed... not a mustang.

[1985 Motorsport Capri]

someone mentioned that they were planing on turning the mustang into the probe around 1990. actually it was more like mid 80-s.
the thing that saved the rear wheel drive mustang was a write in campain by mustang enthusiasts.



the ASC/McLaren the way i see it, was more Ford sanctioned than Saleen.

or by old school terms.
the ASC was what Shelby was in the 60's

Where as Saleen was more like the 60's Yenko.

i Believe the Shelbys had something simaler to the D32 code,
where Ford built the car on the line to suite Shelbys needs just as Ford did for ASC.

Saleen just bought cars & tuned/converted them with Fords aprovel.
Just as Yenko did with Cameros.

[Sandy]

This is a darn good comparison ! Thanks !!

[tfs2121]

someone mentioned that they were planing on turning the mustang into the probe around 1990. actually it was more like mid 80-s.
the thing that saved the rear wheel drive mustang was a write in campain by mustang enthusiasts.



the ASC/McLaren the way i see it, was more Ford sanctioned than Saleen.

or by old school terms.
the ASC was what Shelby was in the 60's

Where as Saleen was more like the 60's Yenko.

i Believe the Shelbys had something simaler to the D32 code,
where Ford built the car on the line to suite Shelbys needs just as Ford did for ASC.

Saleen just bought cars & tuned/converted them with Fords aprovel.
Just as Yenko did with Cameros.

our cars should get more recognition from ford... like the shelbys

we just own a bunch of bastard kids that ford never loved

[Sandy]

Awww, c'mon.....that's cruel

[tfs2121]

ooops sorry sandy

[Sandy]

Don't take this for utter truth. I know NOT that it is truth. However, listening and reading between the lines, the lines in this case of what line came outta certain people's mouth in, out & around FoMoCo & ascMcLaren....there was ALOT of "fighting" (Read that as discourse, bantering, etc.)

Muscat did not like how ASC cut corners in the build, for one. Dealers failed to promote the cars, as they had agreed to, when signing on with the program, a reasonable ascMcLaren Parts inventory stocked by dealers, was really going "away" and not to dealers. Dealers were trying and hold for full pop on pricing, for a 9th inning, bases loaded 3 & 2 pitch for a outta the park homerun on ascMcLaren pricing, there was ZERO manufacturer promotion nor advertising to create interest and Showroom Traffic. ("S.T.") in the buzz and so many other side-lines tug of wars, it's really amazing that they retailed as many as the actually did. As I saw it, there were ALOT of problems, from confusion in ordering, to dealer support from ASC and all the way down the chain.

No sales incentive for salespeople, also. Why would I, as a salesman, push / promote an ASC/MClAREN, when it's gonna take 7 to 8 weeks to come in, when I have GTs in stock, LX V-8s in stock, can swap another dealer for 1 of mine, for the one he has that I need, & DELIVER it tomorrow & get my commission next Friday ??
'Ya wanrt me top push the asc ?
Okay a $300 spiff from ascMcLaren would certainly help, ortherwise I am gonna push that blue LX V8 I got over there. See ??

Beautiful car, with marketing that fell way shorton all levels, caused the demise in 1990. Muscat & Mr Ford and their fight did not help things.

Like I said, it was planned to end this tiime of the year, in 1993.

[ASCMCLRN]

I don't agree.
Ask Mercedes Benz SL & SLK owners, BMW Z owners, Jaguar XK owners, Corvette Owners, Audi TT owners, Mazda Miada owners, as well as T-Bird owners of recent years. Those type of buyers ARE out there. But, yes, they are a "speciality buyer" -- but look how terrific the Mini sales are !!

the asc vert is still a mustang... the mustang was built to hold 4. if i wanted a 2 seater your right i would go buy one of the cars you have listed... not a mustang.

I totally disagree with you on this. First off they intentionally removed anything indicating this was a Mustang let alone a Ford product visually on the exterior/ interior. As Sandy has already mentioned there is a special market segment that calls for a two seater roadster. This was an attempt to break the traditional 2+2 design and appeal to another area. If you so desired a 4 seater there was allready a GT and LX that would accomodate. The Mustang was never supposed to be a family car however you are definately onto another great idea. Ford needs to bring back a Taurus SHO to cover the sports 4 door sedans. Almost anyone I spoke to trades in their 2 door vehicles for a 4 door for the added convienance. So henceforth the Mustang's roots are defined by performance of an economical kind based upon a 2+2 design. Any derivitive would be a specialty vehicle in and of itself. Perhaps a front wheel drive/ awd Taurus SHO and a 4 door rear wheel drive based on the Mustang platform called the Torino would suffice for the family oriented.

Nick

[ASCMCLRN]

someone mentioned that they were planing on turning the mustang into the probe around 1990. actually it was more like mid 80-s.
the thing that saved the rear wheel drive mustang was a write in campain by mustang enthusiasts.

the ASC/McLaren the way i see it, was more Ford sanctioned than Saleen.

or by old school terms.
the ASC was what Shelby was in the 60's

Where as Saleen was more like the 60's Yenko.

i Believe the Shelbys had something simaler to the D32 code,
where Ford built the car on the line to suite Shelbys needs just as Ford did for ASC.

Saleen just bought cars & tuned/converted them with Fords aprovel.
Just as Yenko did with Cameros.

I beieve I may have brought up about the Probe. The Probe was slated to replace the Mustang around 1988 as an 89 for the Anniversary year. As you mentioned much petition brought that to a halt. I am not sure were you may have thought around 1990 as the Probe was already out and if it were to replace the Stang would have had to from the start.

Without a doubt the ASC was sanctioned more then a Saleen. The whole story line clearly tells us how Ford was looking for a convertible Mustang designer.

The Shelby's were originaly produced by Carol shelby at his own plant much like the Saleen. They were later converted some were else, I believe at the Ford plant? 1968 is when this happened which made the 1967 and earlier more desirable. As far as a special code, Shelby had one it was 8D.

Ok this will help clarify some points. Link:

http://www.jerryscobras.net/carrollshelbyhistory.html

"Shelby-American lost the lease on its LAX facility in August 1967. In September 1967, production of '68 Shelby Mustang moved to Ionia, Michigan, and the A.O. Smith Company. The Lone Star, to be the successor to the Cobra, was constructed in England by John Wyer's JW Automotive Engineering Company."

Nick