TO MIKE NEGUS and others.

KHummel66 · Post by **KHummel66** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:11 am

What else is known about the cars? (It's interesting how many are unique, 1 of 1 type cars). What equipment do they have in common? Or more important, what do they have in common that is different from all the cars that have a DF on their buck tags? I know, I know, that's actually a very BIG question considering all the data.

foxchassis · Post by **foxchassis** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:03 am

Where I say "1 of ____", the ____ is however many total of that model that I have in the database.

I'll see what I can do later about listing the optional equipment each one was ordered with.

svt1996cobra · Post by **svt1996cobra** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:24 pm

I wonder if the DF has to do with the type of order placed by the dealer for the car. Or DF could stand for a standard common build, and cars without DF were ordered to a customers spec. To determine an acronym that would relate has me stumped.

David

Post by **negusm** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:34 pm

svt1996cobra wrote:I wonder if the DF has to do with the type of order placed by the dealer for the car. Or DF could stand for a standard common build, and cars without DF were ordered to a customers spec. To determine an acronym that would relate has me stumped.

David

I was thinking of something like that too...as in : If you don't see DF, go and build the car based on this build sheet instead.

I doubt it's going to be really major or we'd have zeroed in on it and it would be more common.

Interesting though.

-Mike

foxchassis · Post by **foxchassis** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:59 pm

Among all that do not have 'DF', I could find no common engine, transmission, exterior paint color(s), interior trim color or seating material, options, etc.

Same goes for all that do have 'DF'.

Comparing tags that do not have 'DF' to tags that do have 'DF' I could find nothing common that is on one but not on the other.

foxchassis · Post by **foxchassis** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:00 pm

Here is a query of all '82-'86 that do not have 'DF':

http://www.ascmclaren.org/phpBB/album_p ... ic_id=2028

KHummel66 · Post by **KHummel66** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:41 am

What is known about how those cars are equipped based on owner descriptions of the vehicles?

foxchassis · Post by **foxchassis** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:04 am

For some of them I have no addittional info. For others, well, it's a bit thin, for a number of reasons out of my control. It's rare to get much more info than what is already covered by the Buck Tag or the VC Label.

Here is what I have that is not already covered by (known) codes on the Buck Tag:

82-609863 -- AM/FM stereo, urethane-wrapped steering wheel, interval wipers, tinted windshield
82-611995 -- front plate bracket, tilt, interval wipers
82-629779 -- TRX, interval wipers
82-630939 --
82-140582 --
82-155596 --
82-155731 -- premium sound
82-157023 -- premium sound
82-163043 --
82-167568 --
82-176809 --
82-177308 --
82-184702 -- front plate bracket
82-190511 -- tinted glass (all), premium sound, interval wipers
82-205201 --
82-213116 --
82-216618 --
83-602499 -- premium sound
83-603579 --
83-215939 --
84-173966 --
84-181823 --
84-184626 --
84-184630 --
84-196065 --
84-213715 --

Post by **negusm** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:57 am

So let's make a list of MAJOR build items from 82-84 that don't show up on the metal tags...

Springs
Brakes - Engine choice would dictate.
Sway Bar Size
Wheels
Tires
Rear End Gear Ratio
Console
Fog Lights - Trim level should determine
California car
Interval Wipers
Tinted Glass

If some of these are dictated by the trim level, we can probably ignore them.

So what else in the build could it really refer to?

-Mike

foxchassis · Post by **foxchassis** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:23 pm

I guess we need to establish what the Buck Tag was used for.

From a thread at MustangGT.org:

Something to keep in mind is that (at least for third generation Mustangs), the buck tag was used on the assembly line to assemble the basic "shell" of the car (things such doors, hood, hatch, dash, wiring, tranny, engine, roof option, paint color, etc., etc.). The more detailed items are found ONLY on the build sheet which was used to assemble the rest of the car (suspension pieces, interior pieces, engine accessories, wheels, etc., etc.).

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:05 pm

http://www.gt350mustang.com/images/bucktag4.gif

DF = Door Frame

foxchassis · Post by **foxchassis** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:22 pm

Heh, I was wondering when someone was going to point out the tag on that 'site.

I had a lengthy PM exchange with 85mLaren at FEP (85McLaren here) on that one....

I have seen that tag @ gt350mustang.com and they have about half of it correct. Some things they say are unknown are known (now) and some things they say are known they have wrong or are not known at all or for sure. Now, I do understand that that 'site hasn't been updated in almost six years, so they may just be behind the times.

What they have right:
Model
Body style
Engine
Body Color Codes
Air Conditioner
Top color (convertibles)
Speed Control
Model Style
Rocker mouldings
Tranny
Hood Type
What they say is "unknown" that is known (now):
'MO' = moonroof (sunroof)
'HB' = heated back glass (rear defrost)
(blank spot between ANN and MBW) = power locks (PL), or windows (PW), or both (WD)
'EI' = electronic-injection (EFI) -- would be 'CI' (CFI) for '84+ V6 or 5.0L with AOD
What they say is known but they have wrong:
Consecutive Build Number -- that number is the order in which VINs are assigned. It is not the order in which they are built.
The code they say is for 'Premium Sound Package' is not. It is only on tags from convertibles ('83+) and '84+ coupes. It's not on any Capris. Some of those convertibles and coupes have 'PS', some have 'SK', and some have nothing.
The code they say is for manual or power 'Windows' ('04' on that tag) is not. It is for the type of rear glass on a coupe, convertible, or hatchback.
The code they say is for rear louvers ('NLR' on that tag) is not. You've been part of the recent discussion we all had on that one.
What they say is known but is either not known at all or not known for sure:
Paint shop rotation # -- that's what I believe the code is for but it's unconfirmed thus far
Door Frame Color ('DF') -- this code is on tags from cars that DID NOT have door frames (T-roof and convertible). It is also on tags from cars that had body color OR black door frames, so I don't see how the paint shop is supposed to know which car was supposed to have which by just looking at "DF".
Bumpers ('ST') -- Some time during the '79 model year the front and rear bumpers were changed from aluminum to steel. I don't know when that happened. Sometimes a car had one of each. I can tell you that I have a tag from a VERY early car, which should have had aluminum bumpers, but it has 'ST' on the Buck Tag. I can also tell you that one member said he had front steel/aluminum rear bumpers on his Cobra and had 'ST' on his tag.
'ELECTRIC' -- I don't know what this code is for (it changed to 'EL' in late '84) but it is not on every tag. The '-D' at the end is for the interior trim color, which they didn't mention, so I assume they thought it was part of the 'ELECTRIC' code.

KHummel66 · Post by **KHummel66** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:59 pm

FoxChassis,

You mentioned that DF couldn't be for power brakes and ST couldn't be for power steering.

Could ST be for Tilt Steering column?

What types of cars have you come across that are supposed to have power brakes and power steering but don't have the DF and ST on the back tag?

foxchassis · Post by **foxchassis** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:25 pm

I would have to go back through all of the factory literature to be sure but it goes something like this...

All convertibles, 2.3T, and V8s have power brakes and power steering as standard/mandatory equipment, sometimes at "extra cost".

'ST' is not tilt steering as the code is still on tags from cars that did not have that option. It is also not "stereo tape", for the same reason.

I can tell you that of the 272 entries I have in the database (82-86 only) only two do not have 'ST', and I believe both were errors in posting the data online. One was from an '82 GT found in a junkyard, and the poster combined two lines on the Buck Tag into one line when posting it, and the other was from an '83 GT , and the owner posted codes in the wrong order.

I haven't entered '79-'81 data yet because some things are really different and the '79/early '80 tags and San Jose-assembled cars are totally screwed up.

KHummel66 · Post by **KHummel66** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:48 am

I took a look at a build sheet, VC label decode, and buck tag to see what is (and is not) listed on each. One thing I didn't see on either the build sheet or VC label is a place for a tilt column code (please correct me if I overlooked it or if it is part of some package grouping), but it would have to be on at least one of them, so that leaves the buck tag. Also, the build sheet shows 3 "Power Aids" - Deck Lid, Locks, & Windows, but only codes for Locks and Windows have been ID'd on buck tags; it would be logical that deck lid would be on it too.

I also did a comparison of the tags on my 83 V6 auto Crimson Cat, 85 asc vert, and 86 asc vert and how each is optioned out to see if anything stood out. Of the un-ID'd codes all 3 cars have DF, ST, and an 06 after AC; and all 3 are equipped with intermittent wipers, tilt wheels, deck lid release and the center info center. While I can't come up with any logic to the code's characters, I'm wondering if:

- could the DF be for a remote deck lid release?
- if ST can't be for Steering Tilt, could an 06 after AC be that (or the DF perhaps)?
- could the ST be for the console info center?

Also, the V6 Cat has an electric cooling fan instead of a belt turned fan and it also has ELECTRIC on the buck tag. Would that explain that code or does other data contradict it?

I might have more from these 3 cars, but I need to check a couple things on them this weekend.