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Number: 1898
From: "alligatoreyes_2000 <alligator_eyes@h...>" <alligator_eyes@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003  6:51 am
Subject: Re: [ASC McLaren ] Looking for McLaren

Body:
Marquis,

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to the board and I thank
you for your reasoned reply to my questions and comments. You
covered several things that I had considered but from a different
perspective and it is always interesting to see how other individuals
approach the same situation. For instance I would never compare the
McLaren with a Mustang, although technically it is a Mustang. It is
however "different". I would not purchase a Mustang
convertible of
that vintage because it does not interest me. A McLaren on the other
hand does because it is "special". Do I make any sense?

I am probably looking for a "road pig" as I want an every
day
driver. A car with very low mileage would conceivably cause me to
hesitate to put too many more miles on it and I want to enjoy driving
it not staring at it in a garage. Tasteful modifications would
certainly be in order i.e.: a stroked 351 w/vortex would not be out
of the question and an upgrade to the suspension to handle the added
horsepower. The removed components would be saved of course in case
someone wanted to return it to stock. I am a "custom" person
myself
but have great respect for the "restorer". As for the car
that you
have recently been discussing……I am not THAT "custom".

Having said all of the above, I just stumbled across a 1988 Dark Rose
or Burgundy McLaren seven miles from my home. It has tasteful custom
rims, burgundy top, that is in excellent condition, except for a
decal on the rear window that someone tried to scrape off, tan
interior, 5-speed trans and 19,600 original miles. It is on its
second owner (3 years) and I believe that it has spent most of its
life in a garage. Asking price is 10k, negotiable, with the original
rims and possibly tires also available. I am to drive, inspect, and
talk with the owner today. [1-15-03]

This presents me with a quandary. Should I ditch my pathetic, but
dependable, `92 Pontiac Grand Am, 4dr, 6 cyl, with it's
120,000
miles, salvage title, and 28 mpg and purchase the McLaren as my every
day driver, or should I purchase the McLaren and put it in my garage
until the warm summer breezes and sunny days perhaps drive up the
price and sell it for a small profit and continue to look for a
ragged out Road Pig hopefully for pocket change; or perhaps I should
just forget the whole thing.

Purchasing it at the present moment would be somewhat of a burden as
we are building a new house and money is quite tight, especially
since my wife keeps changing things and opting for more expensive
accessories; but allowances can be made.

I solicit your opinions. I will have pics today to send to anyone
who would like to take a close look at this vehicle.

Thank you all for any input.Eyes

--- In ascmclaren@yahoogroups.com, Marquis Grove <infosyssec@y...>
wrote:
> Hi Eyes
>
> Let me take a shot at this...
>
> The McLaren is certainly a unique car, with limited production
numbers and unique body styling to
> give it a plus feature in the visual category.
>
> The main strength of the McLaren Mustang is the fact that the
vehicle is based on the 5.0 ( 302
> cubic inch ) high output Ford engine and transmissions. As such
the vehicle has a guaranteed and
> ready supply of autoparts well into the future. Unlike for example
a vehicle like a Jaguar
> convertible whose body parts and mechanical parts demand top dollar
at present and for which the
> future availability of parts will diminish over the years.
>
> The McLaren Mustang can be taken to the local Pep Boys or the local
Ford dealership for mechanical
> repairs. In short there will always be parts for this car and
people who can readily and cheaply
> work on them.
>
> The weak point of the McLaren Mustang is that 'from the factory'
they were designed for 'looks'
> rather then performance. The McLaren is a looker, as compared to
a Saleen or Roush that have
> performance enhancements that give them more power over the stock
McLaren or stock Mustang models
> of the same years.
>
> That having been said, the auctions on eBay are not necessarily an
indicator of whether the market
> for McLaren's is soft or strong. On one hand the 'better' examples
of McLaren's do not usually
> end up trading on eBay - which in many cases is used as a resource
of last resort to sell off a
> McLaren. The higher end McLaren's make their appearances in
AutoTrader.com and in higher prestige
> publications like the Dupont registry.
>
> Secondly, with regards to the eBay auctions, you must appreciate
that the majority of buyers on
> eBay are 'looking for a bargain'. As such they are notoriously
CHEAP - or looking to 'get
> something for nothing'. These are the same circus clowns that
post $1000 bids on 2002 model
> cars.
>
> Thirdly, many of the bargain hunters seeking out a 'Mustang
convertible' simply do not appreciate
> the difference in original cost or the styling difference between a
McLaren Mustang and an LX or
> GT standard issue Mustang convertible. As such, when bidding and
given the opportunity to acquire
> a 'convertible' on eBay they are not really interested in the
distinction between the two cars -
> their motivation is to simply get the 'most car for the least
dollars'
>
> Now let us put this in the perspective of the standard eBay buyer
who is seeking out a summer
> convertible.... in the model years of the McLaren there are
basically three types of rag tops
> that they will be looking at :
>
> a) the LX convertible - which was the entry or cheapest level - and
may have a 4 or 8 cylinder
> engine or
>
> b) the GT convertible - which was the upgraded level and would
definitely have a V8 engine or
>
> c) the McLaren Mustang - which was the limited edition or top of
the family in the convertibles.
>
> Now... assuming that three identical mileage and condition vehicles
of the A, B and C category
> appear on eBay. If you could obtain any of the above vehicles for
$5000 - you would obviously
> opt for the C - as it is the limited edition vehicle and had the
highest initial cost when first
> sold by the dealership. This is simply getting the most bang for
your buck.
>
> Now... assuming that three identical mileage and condition vehicles
of the A, B and C category
> appear on eBay again. In normal auction circumstance the A
vehicle being originally the cheapest
> from the factory will go for a lesser dollar then the B - which
from the factory was worth more to
> begin with. In turn the B vehicle will go for a lesser dollar
then the C - which from the
> factory was worth more to begin with.
>
> This having been said, the bargain hunters will always opt for
price and that would eliminate the
> McLaren from being sold on eBay at top dollar. However, that is
not to say that a 'mint' and low
> mileage McLaren would not find top dollar on eBay given the right
circumstances. But the fact
> that eBayers are notoriously cheap and seeking bargains distorts
the view of the market for these
> vehicles.
>
> In our little McLaren family... we have three classes of
McLarens. The road pig, the daily
> drivers and the jewels.
>
> The 'road pigs' are those McLarens that were abused to hell or
simply used to hell with litle care
> or regard to their long term preservation. These vehicles USUALLY
show up on eBay - as the avenue
> of last recourse to unload them.... which is where I picked up
mine ;). These are the lowest cost
> entry McLarens. Not really suitable for restoration up to
concours level - but definitely a
> reasonable entry vehicle where a limited investment can rejuvenate
the vehicle to a level where it
> is eye candy to look at and be fully enjoyed in its usage.
>
> The 'daily drivers' are those McLarens that have been fully
enjoyed, racking up high miles, and
> for which the owners took some level of pride in maintaining the
vehicle mechanically and
> physically. These represent the mid cost entry McLarens. They
appreciably take less dollars to
> rejuvenate and are highly suitable for use as a daily driver in the
loving hands of the next
> owned. These vehicles have the opportunity to be readily restored
up to a concours level - but
> nonetheless the high mileage will always be held against them and
prejudice their ability to ever
> fetch the top dollar ( or even recover the money that was invested
in them to bring them up to the
> concours level ).
>
> The 'jewel' level are those McLarens that have been painstakingly
cared for over the years and
> have very very low mileage. These represent the high end cost in
the McLaren family and fetch
> the top dollar when being bought and sold. The vehicle owned by
Sandy would be a good example of
> this class of McLaren - ultra low mileage and extremely well
maintained and stored - suitable for
> musuem display. This is probably the only McLaren that should be
looked at for INVESTMENT
> purposes - as the limited production of the original run of
vehicles, combined with the
> diminishing number of vehicles in such condition ensures they will
fetch top dollar when they are
> resold.
>
> Now let us roll all this information back into responding
specifically to what you stated your
> requirements are for a car : "I would like something that will
increase in value"
>
> You did not state whether you planned to USE the car and enjoy it.
This will obviously affect the
> answer to your question.
>
> If you plan to USE the vehicle - then you should be looking at the
B category of vehicles. As
> such you would be able to drive around, enjoy the car and at the
time you go to sell the car it
> may be possible that the cars value will have either maintained its
original cost or even gone up
> slightly.
>
> If you plan to NOT USE the vehicle then you should be looking at
the C category of vehicles. As
> such you would be pretty confident that the McLaren you have stored
away safely in some warehouse
> will be steadily increasing over the years - like money in a bank
account. A top level C class
> vehicle would be considered a fairly safe investment.
>
> But I should buffer my comments with something my 'daddy' told me a
long time ago - cars don't
> make money they take money. In some cases and with a careful
decision you might strike upon the
> rare combinations of a vehicle that give it an inherent value that
can only rise over the coming
> years. In the best of cases you might end up with a vehicle that
appreciates at a respectable
> level - even while you are driving and enjoying it. I think given
my little tale so far, you can
> see how the A, B and C level cars cover each of those niches or
requirements.
>
> So is the market soft for McLarens ? No. I think you have just
been watching the A level road
> pigs duking it out in the auctions with Mustang LX and GT
convertibles - and the perspective of
> seeing bargain hunters looking for a deal.
>
> So what is the best year for the McLaren's ? I believe that our
illustrious leader Sandy would
> be better positioned to answer that. But for myself, I have a
leaning toward the higher
> production model year of 1988 - where there were the most cars
made.
>
> But look at the McLaren's in two distinctive groups / and possibly
three. You have a major
> distinction between the pre-1987 McLarens and the the post-1987
McLarens.
>
> You also have a major distinction between the Mustang McLaren's and
the Capri McLarens. Although
> my Capri McLaren brothers may not agree with me, I believe the
market is SOFTER for the Capri
> McLaren's then the Mustang McLarens. This is simply a reflection
of the discrimination that
> occured in the marketplace between the two marques. If the Capri
from 'Mercury' had been as
> popular as the Mustang from Ford ( in the eyes of the general
population ) then there would still
> have been a Capri in the Mercury product line up. Instead it died
and transitioned to a totally
> different vehicle.
>
> The post-1987 McLaren's were based on the 'FOX' body Mustangs. As
such there is a religious,
> almost CULT clique of fanatics devoted to the FOX body Mustangs.
This fantatism is the reason why
> there are so many secondary and repro manufacturers providing
standard parts and upgrade
> performance parts for the 1987 to 1993 Mustangs. As such the
McLaren's from 1987 to 1990 benefit
> from this large selection and availability of competively priced
parts.
>
> Oh well... those are thoughts off the top of my head. Not bad for
a fast pass draft. Hopefully
> I have given you some insight into what I saw in the McLaren when I
made the choice. I had
> weighed going back to the TR6 from Triumph to get my convertible
kicks ( a vehicle that I had
> previously owned a number of ) - but the economics of the McLaren
over the Triumph made the choice
> a no brainer... the McLaren is a distinctive looking vehicle, with
great eye appeal, limited
> production, easy availability of parts and with a good forcast for
future parts availability.
> Having the cult status of being based on a Mustang FOX body also
helps to ensure interest in this
> limited production vehicle for years to come.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Marq
> http://www.snpx.com/mclaren <- my McLaren going from 'road pig'
to 'the daily driver level' ;)
>
>
>
> --- "alligatoreyes_2000 <alligator_eyes@h...>"
<alligator_eyes@h...> wrote:
> > Gentlemen(and Ladies also),
> >
> > I have been following auctions on eBay and checking out the
various
> > on-line vehicle sales sites for a short while now as I am
considering
> > the purchase of one of these as a daily driver.
> >
> > It seems to me that the market for the McLaren is quite soft.
Can
> > someone explain this: as these cars are certainly unique and
> > relatively rare? While I'm not looking for a "collector" per se
I
> > would like something that will increase in value. I feel that
these
> > cars fit this profile but am interested in the lack of market
demand.
> >
> > Can anyone offer an explanation? And if I might also ask the
best
> > year to purchase from a relability standpoint.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Eyes
> >
> >
>
>
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  Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size
1899 Re: Looking for McLaren Sandy Block <cigarsandy@c...> cigarsandy Wed  1/15/2003   20 KB