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1899 Number: 1898 From: "alligatoreyes_2000 <alligator_eyes@h...>" <alligator_eyes@h...> Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:51 am Subject: Re: [ASC McLaren ] Looking for McLaren
Body:
Marquis,
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to the board and I thank you for your reasoned reply to my questions and comments. You covered several things that I had considered but from a different perspective and it is always interesting to see how other individuals approach the same situation. For instance I would never compare the McLaren with a Mustang, although technically it is a Mustang. It is however "different". I would not purchase a Mustang convertible of that vintage because it does not interest me. A McLaren on the other hand does because it is "special". Do I make any sense?
I am probably looking for a "road pig" as I want an every day driver. A car with very low mileage would conceivably cause me to hesitate to put too many more miles on it and I want to enjoy driving it not staring at it in a garage. Tasteful modifications would certainly be in order i.e.: a stroked 351 w/vortex would not be out of the question and an upgrade to the suspension to handle the added horsepower. The removed components would be saved of course in case someone wanted to return it to stock. I am a "custom" person myself but have great respect for the "restorer". As for the car that you have recently been discussing……I am not THAT "custom".
Having said all of the above, I just stumbled across a 1988 Dark Rose or Burgundy McLaren seven miles from my home. It has tasteful custom rims, burgundy top, that is in excellent condition, except for a decal on the rear window that someone tried to scrape off, tan interior, 5-speed trans and 19,600 original miles. It is on its second owner (3 years) and I believe that it has spent most of its life in a garage. Asking price is 10k, negotiable, with the original rims and possibly tires also available. I am to drive, inspect, and talk with the owner today. [1-15-03]
This presents me with a quandary. Should I ditch my pathetic, but dependable, `92 Pontiac Grand Am, 4dr, 6 cyl, with it's 120,000 miles, salvage title, and 28 mpg and purchase the McLaren as my every day driver, or should I purchase the McLaren and put it in my garage until the warm summer breezes and sunny days perhaps drive up the price and sell it for a small profit and continue to look for a ragged out Road Pig hopefully for pocket change; or perhaps I should just forget the whole thing.
Purchasing it at the present moment would be somewhat of a burden as we are building a new house and money is quite tight, especially since my wife keeps changing things and opting for more expensive accessories; but allowances can be made.
I solicit your opinions. I will have pics today to send to anyone who would like to take a close look at this vehicle.
Thank you all for any input.Eyes
--- In ascmclaren@yahoogroups.com, Marquis Grove <infosyssec@y...> wrote: > Hi Eyes > > Let me take a shot at this... > > The McLaren is certainly a unique car, with limited production numbers and unique body styling to > give it a plus feature in the visual category. > > The main strength of the McLaren Mustang is the fact that the vehicle is based on the 5.0 ( 302 > cubic inch ) high output Ford engine and transmissions. As such the vehicle has a guaranteed and > ready supply of autoparts well into the future. Unlike for example a vehicle like a Jaguar > convertible whose body parts and mechanical parts demand top dollar at present and for which the > future availability of parts will diminish over the years. > > The McLaren Mustang can be taken to the local Pep Boys or the local Ford dealership for mechanical > repairs. In short there will always be parts for this car and people who can readily and cheaply > work on them. > > The weak point of the McLaren Mustang is that 'from the factory' they were designed for 'looks' > rather then performance. The McLaren is a looker, as compared to a Saleen or Roush that have > performance enhancements that give them more power over the stock McLaren or stock Mustang models > of the same years. > > That having been said, the auctions on eBay are not necessarily an indicator of whether the market > for McLaren's is soft or strong. On one hand the 'better' examples of McLaren's do not usually > end up trading on eBay - which in many cases is used as a resource of last resort to sell off a > McLaren. The higher end McLaren's make their appearances in AutoTrader.com and in higher prestige > publications like the Dupont registry. > > Secondly, with regards to the eBay auctions, you must appreciate that the majority of buyers on > eBay are 'looking for a bargain'. As such they are notoriously CHEAP - or looking to 'get > something for nothing'. These are the same circus clowns that post $1000 bids on 2002 model > cars. > > Thirdly, many of the bargain hunters seeking out a 'Mustang convertible' simply do not appreciate > the difference in original cost or the styling difference between a McLaren Mustang and an LX or > GT standard issue Mustang convertible. As such, when bidding and given the opportunity to acquire > a 'convertible' on eBay they are not really interested in the distinction between the two cars - > their motivation is to simply get the 'most car for the least dollars' > > Now let us put this in the perspective of the standard eBay buyer who is seeking out a summer > convertible.... in the model years of the McLaren there are basically three types of rag tops > that they will be looking at : > > a) the LX convertible - which was the entry or cheapest level - and may have a 4 or 8 cylinder > engine or > > b) the GT convertible - which was the upgraded level and would definitely have a V8 engine or > > c) the McLaren Mustang - which was the limited edition or top of the family in the convertibles. > > Now... assuming that three identical mileage and condition vehicles of the A, B and C category > appear on eBay. If you could obtain any of the above vehicles for $5000 - you would obviously > opt for the C - as it is the limited edition vehicle and had the highest initial cost when first > sold by the dealership. This is simply getting the most bang for your buck. > > Now... assuming that three identical mileage and condition vehicles of the A, B and C category > appear on eBay again. In normal auction circumstance the A vehicle being originally the cheapest > from the factory will go for a lesser dollar then the B - which from the factory was worth more to > begin with. In turn the B vehicle will go for a lesser dollar then the C - which from the > factory was worth more to begin with. > > This having been said, the bargain hunters will always opt for price and that would eliminate the > McLaren from being sold on eBay at top dollar. However, that is not to say that a 'mint' and low > mileage McLaren would not find top dollar on eBay given the right circumstances. But the fact > that eBayers are notoriously cheap and seeking bargains distorts the view of the market for these > vehicles. > > In our little McLaren family... we have three classes of McLarens. The road pig, the daily > drivers and the jewels. > > The 'road pigs' are those McLarens that were abused to hell or simply used to hell with litle care > or regard to their long term preservation. These vehicles USUALLY show up on eBay - as the avenue > of last recourse to unload them.... which is where I picked up mine ;). These are the lowest cost > entry McLarens. Not really suitable for restoration up to concours level - but definitely a > reasonable entry vehicle where a limited investment can rejuvenate the vehicle to a level where it > is eye candy to look at and be fully enjoyed in its usage. > > The 'daily drivers' are those McLarens that have been fully enjoyed, racking up high miles, and > for which the owners took some level of pride in maintaining the vehicle mechanically and > physically. These represent the mid cost entry McLarens. They appreciably take less dollars to > rejuvenate and are highly suitable for use as a daily driver in the loving hands of the next > owned. These vehicles have the opportunity to be readily restored up to a concours level - but > nonetheless the high mileage will always be held against them and prejudice their ability to ever > fetch the top dollar ( or even recover the money that was invested in them to bring them up to the > concours level ). > > The 'jewel' level are those McLarens that have been painstakingly cared for over the years and > have very very low mileage. These represent the high end cost in the McLaren family and fetch > the top dollar when being bought and sold. The vehicle owned by Sandy would be a good example of > this class of McLaren - ultra low mileage and extremely well maintained and stored - suitable for > musuem display. This is probably the only McLaren that should be looked at for INVESTMENT > purposes - as the limited production of the original run of vehicles, combined with the > diminishing number of vehicles in such condition ensures they will fetch top dollar when they are > resold. > > Now let us roll all this information back into responding specifically to what you stated your > requirements are for a car : "I would like something that will increase in value" > > You did not state whether you planned to USE the car and enjoy it. This will obviously affect the > answer to your question. > > If you plan to USE the vehicle - then you should be looking at the B category of vehicles. As > such you would be able to drive around, enjoy the car and at the time you go to sell the car it > may be possible that the cars value will have either maintained its original cost or even gone up > slightly. > > If you plan to NOT USE the vehicle then you should be looking at the C category of vehicles. As > such you would be pretty confident that the McLaren you have stored away safely in some warehouse > will be steadily increasing over the years - like money in a bank account. A top level C class > vehicle would be considered a fairly safe investment. > > But I should buffer my comments with something my 'daddy' told me a long time ago - cars don't > make money they take money. In some cases and with a careful decision you might strike upon the > rare combinations of a vehicle that give it an inherent value that can only rise over the coming > years. In the best of cases you might end up with a vehicle that appreciates at a respectable > level - even while you are driving and enjoying it. I think given my little tale so far, you can > see how the A, B and C level cars cover each of those niches or requirements. > > So is the market soft for McLarens ? No. I think you have just been watching the A level road > pigs duking it out in the auctions with Mustang LX and GT convertibles - and the perspective of > seeing bargain hunters looking for a deal. > > So what is the best year for the McLaren's ? I believe that our illustrious leader Sandy would > be better positioned to answer that. But for myself, I have a leaning toward the higher > production model year of 1988 - where there were the most cars made. > > But look at the McLaren's in two distinctive groups / and possibly three. You have a major > distinction between the pre-1987 McLarens and the the post-1987 McLarens. > > You also have a major distinction between the Mustang McLaren's and the Capri McLarens. Although > my Capri McLaren brothers may not agree with me, I believe the market is SOFTER for the Capri > McLaren's then the Mustang McLarens. This is simply a reflection of the discrimination that > occured in the marketplace between the two marques. If the Capri from 'Mercury' had been as > popular as the Mustang from Ford ( in the eyes of the general population ) then there would still > have been a Capri in the Mercury product line up. Instead it died and transitioned to a totally > different vehicle. > > The post-1987 McLaren's were based on the 'FOX' body Mustangs. As such there is a religious, > almost CULT clique of fanatics devoted to the FOX body Mustangs. This fantatism is the reason why > there are so many secondary and repro manufacturers providing standard parts and upgrade > performance parts for the 1987 to 1993 Mustangs. As such the McLaren's from 1987 to 1990 benefit > from this large selection and availability of competively priced parts. > > Oh well... those are thoughts off the top of my head. Not bad for a fast pass draft. Hopefully > I have given you some insight into what I saw in the McLaren when I made the choice. I had > weighed going back to the TR6 from Triumph to get my convertible kicks ( a vehicle that I had > previously owned a number of ) - but the economics of the McLaren over the Triumph made the choice > a no brainer... the McLaren is a distinctive looking vehicle, with great eye appeal, limited > production, easy availability of parts and with a good forcast for future parts availability. > Having the cult status of being based on a Mustang FOX body also helps to ensure interest in this > limited production vehicle for years to come. > > Best wishes > > Marq > http://www.snpx.com/mclaren <- my McLaren going from 'road pig' to 'the daily driver level' ;) > > > > --- "alligatoreyes_2000 <alligator_eyes@h...>" <alligator_eyes@h...> wrote: > > Gentlemen(and Ladies also), > > > > I have been following auctions on eBay and checking out the various > > on-line vehicle sales sites for a short while now as I am considering > > the purchase of one of these as a daily driver. > > > > It seems to me that the market for the McLaren is quite soft. Can > > someone explain this: as these cars are certainly unique and > > relatively rare? While I'm not looking for a "collector" per se I > > would like something that will increase in value. I feel that these > > cars fit this profile but am interested in the lack of market demand. > > > > Can anyone offer an explanation? And if I might also ask the best > > year to purchase from a relability standpoint. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Eyes > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com