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Number: 1899
From: "Sandy Block <cigarsandy@c...>" <cigarsandy@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003  9:58 am
Subject: Re: [ASC McLaren ] Looking for McLaren

Body:
"EYES" that car you found in "Dark Rose" or "Burgundy" is
actually "Black~Cherry Pearl" and is one of just 27 in color, made.
It was a 1988 only color selection. Some had tan top & tan interior,
some had Claret top & tan interior and there was one made with claret
top & grey interior. I think you sould buy it & put it in the
garage, and just look at it and get enjoyment that way, as do I.
Can't stand these folks who buy 'em to use 'em, 'ya know!!

Okay, am I getting back at you guys making fun of me????

Now, getting serious. It would be a nice piece to own, due to its
rarity, which I gather is a low priority on your list, but still a
plus. I would not go over $10,000 for it. Less is better (DUH).

Time for interesting story as to how & why that color came to be!!
The color is actually from Cadillac (1985-87) where is was
called "Bordeaux" (Code 99). A man walks into Northtown Lincoln-
Mercury in 1988 to see this here new McLaren. He wants one, BUT BUT
BUT he'd like it in the same color as his 1986 Cadillac. He supplies
Northtown L-M (Kansas City, Mo) with the paint code (GM85:99) and
they telephone ascMcLaren with the request. ascMcLaren say, "No
Problem" and procedes to make the car (with tan top & tan interior).
When the car arrives at Northtown, the guy is away on vacation, and
Northtown has to keep it for like 2 weeks until he comes home.
During the 2 weeks (or so) they could have sold it like 5 times!!
Everyone looking at McLarens, migrates to THAT car and wants IT! At
first, Northtown shruges it off. The buyer returns, and picks up his
McLaren. For more than 2 weeks folks are STILL coming in and asking
for THAT car. Finally, Northtown orders up a dozen of them, ALL 5-
speeds!!! Not one Automatic. In the 3 combinations I listed above.
ascMcLaren seeing this, say, "Ummm, lets add that color" and they do.
13 more like cars are ordered from other dealers around the country,
most with automatic, and again in the 3 color combos above.

That's the story of how THAT color came to be. If you can get me the
last 6 digits of the VIN, I can tell you if it was originally a
Northtown car.
Should you buy it & need touch up paint, it's 1985-1987 Cadillac
Bordeaux, code # 99 (or GM85:99)

-- In ascmclaren@yahoogroups.com, "alligatoreyes_2000
<alligator_eyes@h...>" <alligator_eyes@h...> wrote:
> Marquis,
>
> Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to the board and I thank
> you for your reasoned reply to my questions and comments. You
> covered several things that I had considered but from a different
> perspective and it is always interesting to see how other
individuals
> approach the same situation. For instance I would never compare
the
> McLaren with a Mustang, although technically it is a Mustang. It
is
> however "different". I would not purchase a Mustang
> convertible of
> that vintage because it does not interest me. A McLaren on the
other
> hand does because it is "special". Do I make any sense?
>
> I am probably looking for a "road pig" as I want an every
> day
> driver. A car with very low mileage would conceivably cause me to
> hesitate to put too many more miles on it and I want to enjoy
driving
> it not staring at it in a garage. Tasteful modifications would
> certainly be in order i.e.: a stroked 351 w/vortex would not be out
> of the question and an upgrade to the suspension to handle the
added
> horsepower. The removed components would be saved of course in
case
> someone wanted to return it to stock. I am a "custom" person
> myself
> but have great respect for the "restorer". As for the car
> that you
> have recently been discussing……I am not THAT "custom".
>
> Having said all of the above, I just stumbled across a 1988 Dark
Rose
> or Burgundy McLaren seven miles from my home. It has tasteful
custom
> rims, burgundy top, that is in excellent condition, except for a
> decal on the rear window that someone tried to scrape off, tan
> interior, 5-speed trans and 19,600 original miles. It is on its
> second owner (3 years) and I believe that it has spent most of its
> life in a garage. Asking price is 10k, negotiable, with the
original
> rims and possibly tires also available. I am to drive, inspect, and
> talk with the owner today. [1-15-03]
>
> This presents me with a quandary. Should I ditch my pathetic, but
> dependable, `92 Pontiac Grand Am, 4dr, 6 cyl, with it's
> 120,000
> miles, salvage title, and 28 mpg and purchase the McLaren as my
every
> day driver, or should I purchase the McLaren and put it in my
garage
> until the warm summer breezes and sunny days perhaps drive up the
> price and sell it for a small profit and continue to look for a
> ragged out Road Pig hopefully for pocket change; or perhaps I
should
> just forget the whole thing.
>
> Purchasing it at the present moment would be somewhat of a burden
as
> we are building a new house and money is quite tight, especially
> since my wife keeps changing things and opting for more expensive
> accessories; but allowances can be made.
>
> I solicit your opinions. I will have pics today to send to anyone
> who would like to take a close look at this vehicle.
>
> Thank you all for any input.
>
>
> Eyes
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In ascmclaren@yahoogroups.com, Marquis Grove <infosyssec@y...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Eyes
> >
> > Let me take a shot at this...
> >
> > The McLaren is certainly a unique car, with limited production
> numbers and unique body styling to
> > give it a plus feature in the visual category.
> >
> > The main strength of the McLaren Mustang is the fact that the
> vehicle is based on the 5.0 ( 302
> > cubic inch ) high output Ford engine and transmissions. As such
> the vehicle has a guaranteed and
> > ready supply of autoparts well into the future. Unlike for
example
> a vehicle like a Jaguar
> > convertible whose body parts and mechanical parts demand top
dollar
> at present and for which the
> > future availability of parts will diminish over the years.
> >
> > The McLaren Mustang can be taken to the local Pep Boys or the
local
> Ford dealership for mechanical
> > repairs. In short there will always be parts for this car and
> people who can readily and cheaply
> > work on them.
> >
> > The weak point of the McLaren Mustang is that 'from the factory'
> they were designed for 'looks'
> > rather then performance. The McLaren is a looker, as compared
to
> a Saleen or Roush that have
> > performance enhancements that give them more power over the stock
> McLaren or stock Mustang models
> > of the same years.
> >
> > That having been said, the auctions on eBay are not necessarily
an
> indicator of whether the market
> > for McLaren's is soft or strong. On one hand the 'better'
examples
> of McLaren's do not usually
> > end up trading on eBay - which in many cases is used as a
resource
> of last resort to sell off a
> > McLaren. The higher end McLaren's make their appearances in
> AutoTrader.com and in higher prestige
> > publications like the Dupont registry.
> >
> > Secondly, with regards to the eBay auctions, you must appreciate
> that the majority of buyers on
> > eBay are 'looking for a bargain'. As such they are notoriously
> CHEAP - or looking to 'get
> > something for nothing'. These are the same circus clowns that
> post $1000 bids on 2002 model
> > cars.
> >
> > Thirdly, many of the bargain hunters seeking out a 'Mustang
> convertible' simply do not appreciate
> > the difference in original cost or the styling difference between
a
> McLaren Mustang and an LX or
> > GT standard issue Mustang convertible. As such, when bidding and
> given the opportunity to acquire
> > a 'convertible' on eBay they are not really interested in the
> distinction between the two cars -
> > their motivation is to simply get the 'most car for the least
> dollars'
> >
> > Now let us put this in the perspective of the standard eBay buyer
> who is seeking out a summer
> > convertible.... in the model years of the McLaren there are
> basically three types of rag tops
> > that they will be looking at :
> >
> > a) the LX convertible - which was the entry or cheapest level -
and
> may have a 4 or 8 cylinder
> > engine or
> >
> > b) the GT convertible - which was the upgraded level and would
> definitely have a V8 engine or
> >
> > c) the McLaren Mustang - which was the limited edition or top of
> the family in the convertibles.
> >
> > Now... assuming that three identical mileage and condition
vehicles
> of the A, B and C category
> > appear on eBay. If you could obtain any of the above vehicles
for
> $5000 - you would obviously
> > opt for the C - as it is the limited edition vehicle and had the
> highest initial cost when first
> > sold by the dealership. This is simply getting the most bang for
> your buck.
> >
> > Now... assuming that three identical mileage and condition
vehicles
> of the A, B and C category
> > appear on eBay again. In normal auction circumstance the A
> vehicle being originally the cheapest
> > from the factory will go for a lesser dollar then the B - which
> from the factory was worth more to
> > begin with. In turn the B vehicle will go for a lesser dollar
> then the C - which from the
> > factory was worth more to begin with.
> >
> > This having been said, the bargain hunters will always opt for
> price and that would eliminate the
> > McLaren from being sold on eBay at top dollar. However, that is
> not to say that a 'mint' and low
> > mileage McLaren would not find top dollar on eBay given the right
> circumstances. But the fact
> > that eBayers are notoriously cheap and seeking bargains distorts
> the view of the market for these
> > vehicles.
> >
> > In our little McLaren family... we have three classes of
> McLarens. The road pig, the daily
> > drivers and the jewels.
> >
> > The 'road pigs' are those McLarens that were abused to hell or
> simply used to hell with litle care
> > or regard to their long term preservation. These vehicles
USUALLY
> show up on eBay - as the avenue
> > of last recourse to unload them.... which is where I picked up
> mine ;). These are the lowest cost
> > entry McLarens. Not really suitable for restoration up to
> concours level - but definitely a
> > reasonable entry vehicle where a limited investment can
rejuvenate
> the vehicle to a level where it
> > is eye candy to look at and be fully enjoyed in its usage.
> >
> > The 'daily drivers' are those McLarens that have been fully
> enjoyed, racking up high miles, and
> > for which the owners took some level of pride in maintaining the
> vehicle mechanically and
> > physically. These represent the mid cost entry McLarens. They
> appreciably take less dollars to
> > rejuvenate and are highly suitable for use as a daily driver in
the
> loving hands of the next
> > owned. These vehicles have the opportunity to be readily
restored
> up to a concours level - but
> > nonetheless the high mileage will always be held against them and
> prejudice their ability to ever
> > fetch the top dollar ( or even recover the money that was
invested
> in them to bring them up to the
> > concours level ).
> >
> > The 'jewel' level are those McLarens that have been painstakingly
> cared for over the years and
> > have very very low mileage. These represent the high end cost
in
> the McLaren family and fetch
> > the top dollar when being bought and sold. The vehicle owned by
> Sandy would be a good example of
> > this class of McLaren - ultra low mileage and extremely well
> maintained and stored - suitable for
> > musuem display. This is probably the only McLaren that should
be
> looked at for INVESTMENT
> > purposes - as the limited production of the original run of
> vehicles, combined with the
> > diminishing number of vehicles in such condition ensures they
will
> fetch top dollar when they are
> > resold.
> >
> > Now let us roll all this information back into responding
> specifically to what you stated your
> > requirements are for a car : "I would like something that will
> increase in value"
> >
> > You did not state whether you planned to USE the car and enjoy
it.
> This will obviously affect the
> > answer to your question.
> >
> > If you plan to USE the vehicle - then you should be looking at
the
> B category of vehicles. As
> > such you would be able to drive around, enjoy the car and at the
> time you go to sell the car it
> > may be possible that the cars value will have either maintained
its
> original cost or even gone up
> > slightly.
> >
> > If you plan to NOT USE the vehicle then you should be looking at
> the C category of vehicles. As
> > such you would be pretty confident that the McLaren you have
stored
> away safely in some warehouse
> > will be steadily increasing over the years - like money in a bank
> account. A top level C class
> > vehicle would be considered a fairly safe investment.
> >
> > But I should buffer my comments with something my 'daddy' told me
a
> long time ago - cars don't
> > make money they take money. In some cases and with a careful
> decision you might strike upon the
> > rare combinations of a vehicle that give it an inherent value
that
> can only rise over the coming
> > years. In the best of cases you might end up with a vehicle
that
> appreciates at a respectable
> > level - even while you are driving and enjoying it. I think
given
> my little tale so far, you can
> > see how the A, B and C level cars cover each of those niches or
> requirements.
> >
> > So is the market soft for McLarens ? No. I think you have
just
> been watching the A level road
> > pigs duking it out in the auctions with Mustang LX and GT
> convertibles - and the perspective of
> > seeing bargain hunters looking for a deal.
> >
> > So what is the best year for the McLaren's ? I believe that our
> illustrious leader Sandy would
> > be better positioned to answer that. But for myself, I have a
> leaning toward the higher
> > production model year of 1988 - where there were the most cars
> made.
> >
> > But look at the McLaren's in two distinctive groups / and
possibly
> three. You have a major
> > distinction between the pre-1987 McLarens and the the post-1987
> McLarens.
> >
> > You also have a major distinction between the Mustang McLaren's
and
> the Capri McLarens. Although
> > my Capri McLaren brothers may not agree with me, I believe the
> market is SOFTER for the Capri
> > McLaren's then the Mustang McLarens. This is simply a
reflection
> of the discrimination that
> > occured in the marketplace between the two marques. If the
Capri
> from 'Mercury' had been as
> > popular as the Mustang from Ford ( in the eyes of the general
> population ) then there would still
> > have been a Capri in the Mercury product line up. Instead it
died
> and transitioned to a totally
> > different vehicle.
> >
> > The post-1987 McLaren's were based on the 'FOX' body Mustangs.
As
> such there is a religious,
> > almost CULT clique of fanatics devoted to the FOX body Mustangs.
> This fantatism is the reason why
> > there are so many secondary and repro manufacturers providing
> standard parts and upgrade
> > performance parts for the 1987 to 1993 Mustangs. As such the
> McLaren's from 1987 to 1990 benefit
> > from this large selection and availability of competively priced
> parts.
> >
> > Oh well... those are thoughts off the top of my head. Not bad
for
> a fast pass draft. Hopefully
> > I have given you some insight into what I saw in the McLaren when
I
> made the choice. I had
> > weighed going back to the TR6 from Triumph to get my convertible
> kicks ( a vehicle that I had
> > previously owned a number of ) - but the economics of the McLaren
> over the Triumph made the choice
> > a no brainer... the McLaren is a distinctive looking vehicle,
with
> great eye appeal, limited
> > production, easy availability of parts and with a good forcast
for
> future parts availability.
> > Having the cult status of being based on a Mustang FOX body also
> helps to ensure interest in this
> > limited production vehicle for years to come.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Marq
> > http://www.snpx.com/mclaren <- my McLaren going from 'road pig'
> to 'the daily driver level' ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "alligatoreyes_2000 <alligator_eyes@h...>"
> <alligator_eyes@h...> wrote:
> > > Gentlemen(and Ladies also),
> > >
> > > I have been following auctions on eBay and checking out the
> various
> > > on-line vehicle sales sites for a short while now as I am
> considering
> > > the purchase of one of these as a daily driver.
> > >
> > > It seems to me that the market for the McLaren is quite soft.
> Can
> > > someone explain this: as these cars are certainly unique and
> > > relatively rare? While I'm not looking for a "collector" per
se
> I
> > > would like something that will increase in value. I feel that
> these
> > > cars fit this profile but am interested in the lack of market
> demand.
> > >
> > > Can anyone offer an explanation? And if I might also ask the
> best
> > > year to purchase from a relability standpoint.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Eyes
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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